Lufthansa is interested in taking over airberlin
Sep 7, 2017, 1:36 pm
#61
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,162
Nope AB's asset is A320/A330 crew and aircraft that can be used instantly to grow. The slots will be lost for sure.
Sep 7, 2017, 2:59 pm
#62
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 286
zero aircraft belong to AB, they are all leased. I'm sure the leasing company will be happy to lease them to anyone else willing to pay for it as soon as AB terminates payments (or maybe even earlier).
As for the crews, AB is said to have above industry average wages, so if you as an existing airline were willing to take them over at that level you could just as easily hire them individually, especially if you have a strong employer brand as does LH in Germany, for example.
So I still don't see any asset of value but the slots, either to use them yourself or to prevent your competitor from using them and entering your home turf.
As for the crews, AB is said to have above industry average wages, so if you as an existing airline were willing to take them over at that level you could just as easily hire them individually, especially if you have a strong employer brand as does LH in Germany, for example.
So I still don't see any asset of value but the slots, either to use them yourself or to prevent your competitor from using them and entering your home turf.
Sep 8, 2017, 2:04 am
#63
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: a proud member of FT since 05-05-1998
Programs: DL, AF and KL - UA - *G
Posts: 2,239
zero aircraft belong to AB, they are all leased. I'm sure the leasing company will be happy to lease them to anyone else willing to pay for it as soon as AB terminates payments (or maybe even earlier).
As for the crews, AB is said to have above industry average wages, so if you as an existing airline were willing to take them over at that level you could just as easily hire them individually, especially if you have a strong employer brand as does LH in Germany, for example.
So I still don't see any asset of value but the slots, either to use them yourself or to prevent your competitor from using them and entering your home turf.
As for the crews, AB is said to have above industry average wages, so if you as an existing airline were willing to take them over at that level you could just as easily hire them individually, especially if you have a strong employer brand as does LH in Germany, for example.
So I still don't see any asset of value but the slots, either to use them yourself or to prevent your competitor from using them and entering your home turf.
Not interested in crews or aircraft of interest.....they are already offering the crew lower paid jobs with EW but so far not many takers....
Sep 8, 2017, 2:26 am
#64
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,162
Getting all the slots is of no use for LH/EW as they don't have enough aircraft, the aircraft available under lease are not upto LH Group standards, the AB A320/330 are. GEC and Aercap are already in talks with LH to transfer the lease. The crew that flies the a320/330 is qualified according to LH standards, so they are very interested. LH has no crew to operated 60-90 A320 and 10 A330. The backlog for A320 FOs cannot be filled with the 200 or so LH training school graduates that are on standby. You alo need captains...
Sep 10, 2017, 6:02 pm
#65
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
If AB lost it's slots, 50% of that slots would go to the airlines, who already have slots at that airport and the other 50% must be given to 'new entrants'.
And it's not only about the number of slots in total. The worth of a slot depends on weekday and time. You make much more money with a Friday afternoon slot than with one on Wednesday noon. Of course you have also take care of the load factor of the plane for the whole week.
The owner of a slot is free to use the slot for start/landing or passengers/freight. If an airline has 'too many' slots, the airline can swap them with other airlines.
If LH takes over Niki, LH will keep all the slots of Niki. In that case the slots are not lost. And AB is free to transfer other slots to Niki before Niki is taken over by LH. Of course the Federal Cartel Office can force LH to give slots to competitors. And also of course the Federal Minister of Economics can overrule the Federal Cartel Office by approving exceptions.
And it's not only about the number of slots in total. The worth of a slot depends on weekday and time. You make much more money with a Friday afternoon slot than with one on Wednesday noon. Of course you have also take care of the load factor of the plane for the whole week.
The owner of a slot is free to use the slot for start/landing or passengers/freight. If an airline has 'too many' slots, the airline can swap them with other airlines.
If LH takes over Niki, LH will keep all the slots of Niki. In that case the slots are not lost. And AB is free to transfer other slots to Niki before Niki is taken over by LH. Of course the Federal Cartel Office can force LH to give slots to competitors. And also of course the Federal Minister of Economics can overrule the Federal Cartel Office by approving exceptions.
Sep 11, 2017, 3:31 am
#66
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Switzerland
Programs: Bonvoy LT Gold, IHG Gold, BAEC Silver, TP Silver
Posts: 1,495
Just saw a news article this morning in 20Minutes (ok not the greatest news source but....) that Intro Group was interested in taking over the entirety of AB..... for 500 million Euros.
Hans Rudolf Wöhrl apparently made a credit letter offer for 50m EUR as a guarantee and as first payment....
The group is "open to other companies to participate in the offer"....
http://www.20min.ch/ro/economie/news...erlin-27366172 (in French)
Hans Rudolf Wöhrl apparently made a credit letter offer for 50m EUR as a guarantee and as first payment....
The group is "open to other companies to participate in the offer"....
http://www.20min.ch/ro/economie/news...erlin-27366172 (in French)
Sep 11, 2017, 7:14 am
#68
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: Miles & More, Amex
Posts: 678
Seen this here in Germany as well. Wöhrl's business model seems to be that he wants to lease the airplanes to LH and the other interested parties.
His first attempt for a bid failed as he was not allowed to look into the financial data as he wanted to start negotiating with LH group regarding leasing the planes to LH group. This approach would have violated confidentiality rules (which are quite usual in these cases).
So, his chances are rather low. Noone is interested in a solution that keeps floating for a few more months before the next default is coming.
His first attempt for a bid failed as he was not allowed to look into the financial data as he wanted to start negotiating with LH group regarding leasing the planes to LH group. This approach would have violated confidentiality rules (which are quite usual in these cases).
So, his chances are rather low. Noone is interested in a solution that keeps floating for a few more months before the next default is coming.
Sep 11, 2017, 8:00 am
#69
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
Seen this here in Germany as well. Wöhrl's business model seems to be that he wants to lease the airplanes to LH and the other interested parties.
His first attempt for a bid failed as he was not allowed to look into the financial data as he wanted to start negotiating with LH group regarding leasing the planes to LH group. This approach would have violated confidentiality rules (which are quite usual in these cases).
So, his chances are rather low. Noone is interested in a solution that keeps floating for a few more months before the next default is coming.
His first attempt for a bid failed as he was not allowed to look into the financial data as he wanted to start negotiating with LH group regarding leasing the planes to LH group. This approach would have violated confidentiality rules (which are quite usual in these cases).
So, his chances are rather low. Noone is interested in a solution that keeps floating for a few more months before the next default is coming.
At least he didn't use Twitter to make that offer.