Lufthansa in talks with Etihad to buy parts of AB business
Sep 13, 2016, 5:42 am
#31
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Originally Posted by Süddeutsche Zeitung
Lufthansa will verhindern, dass die angeschlagene Air Berlin irgendwann unkontrolliert zusammenbricht. Dann nämlich würden Ryanair und Easyjet versuchen, die entstandene Lücke zu schließen und viel mehr Flugzeuge in Deutschland stationieren als bisher. Sie wären deutlich unangenehmere Konkurrenten für Lufthansa als die seit Langem schwächelnde Air Berlin.
The Süddeutche Zeitung article also raises the prospect of further Lufthansa-Etihad cooperation. Could they [or Spohr, specifically] finally be seeing the light? Codesharing between EY/LH, at the very least, may be the price LH has to pay to do this deal.
Originally Posted by Süddeutsche Zeitung
Die Sache ist pikant: Nach SZ-Informationen hatte Lufthansa noch unter dem ehemaligen Vorstandschef Christoph Franz eine Kooperation mit Etihad mehr oder weniger fix vereinbart. Carsten Spohr, damals noch Chef der Airline-Sparte, legte aber sein Veto gegen die Pläne ein und konnte den Abschluss in letzter Minute verhindern. Spohr beklagt zudem bis heute unfaire Wettbewerbsbedingungen, weil Etihad, Emirates und Qatar Airways angeblich von Subventionen profitieren. Ein Vorwurf, den die drei zurückweisen.
Mittlerweile haben sich Konstellationen und Interessen verschoben - als Konzernchef scheint Spohr nun bereit zu sein, doch noch mit Etihad zusammenzuarbeiten. Wie weitreichend die Allianz tatsächlich wird, ist allerdings noch umstritten. Klar ist, dass es um Gemeinschaftsflüge - sogenanntes Code-Sharing - geht. Dabei führt eine Fluggesellschaft einen Flug mit den Flugnummern mehrerer Partner durch, die ihre eigenen Passagiere auf diese Maschinen buchen können. Etihad will möglichst viele Flüge in die Kooperation einbringen. Lufthansa dagegen sieht das Geschäft dem Vernehmen nach eher als notwendiges Übel, das den Zugriff auf die Air Berlin-Strecken ermöglicht.
Mittlerweile haben sich Konstellationen und Interessen verschoben - als Konzernchef scheint Spohr nun bereit zu sein, doch noch mit Etihad zusammenzuarbeiten. Wie weitreichend die Allianz tatsächlich wird, ist allerdings noch umstritten. Klar ist, dass es um Gemeinschaftsflüge - sogenanntes Code-Sharing - geht. Dabei führt eine Fluggesellschaft einen Flug mit den Flugnummern mehrerer Partner durch, die ihre eigenen Passagiere auf diese Maschinen buchen können. Etihad will möglichst viele Flüge in die Kooperation einbringen. Lufthansa dagegen sieht das Geschäft dem Vernehmen nach eher als notwendiges Übel, das den Zugriff auf die Air Berlin-Strecken ermöglicht.
Sep 13, 2016, 6:36 am
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Sep 13, 2016, 7:18 am
#36
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German newspaper Handelsblatt had some newsbits the last days. I understand that talks between LH and AB are near a deal. 40 AB planes and lots of AB staff and pilots are to change over to EW and the rebranding/rescheduling might take effect as soon as Nov 1st 2016.
I usually share this link to my fellow colleagues and friends who like to fly AB:
Sep 13, 2016, 7:20 am
#37
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If the deal gets through -> those, who have ANA, United or Lufthansa Gold cards, can get access to LH lounges then.
That a bit better than the Exklusiver Wartebereich by AB.
That a bit better than the Exklusiver Wartebereich by AB.
Sep 13, 2016, 8:43 am
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Many of the destinations won't have an LH lounge, though....and for the destinations that do, one presumes that "those who have ANA, United or Lufthansa Gold cards" would have been flying LH/Eurowings anyway, not AB.
That said, LH will be free to put these wet lease planes on any routes they wish - I can't imagine them wanting to slavishly maintain every AB destination and frequency that AB loses the ability to serve once they "lose" these planes/staff, but will rather want to pursue their own goals, not AB's loss-making goals - so we won't know exactly what destinations are involved until further confirmation comes after any agreement.
That said, LH will be free to put these wet lease planes on any routes they wish - I can't imagine them wanting to slavishly maintain every AB destination and frequency that AB loses the ability to serve once they "lose" these planes/staff, but will rather want to pursue their own goals, not AB's loss-making goals - so we won't know exactly what destinations are involved until further confirmation comes after any agreement.
Last edited by irishguy28; Sep 13, 2016 at 8:51 am
Sep 13, 2016, 9:01 am
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So, do I understand it correctly?
LH/EW is not taking over any AB routes, which start or land at TXL or DUS?
We can still expect to see some AB competition on routes like DUS-MUC, TXL-MUC, TXL-DUS, TXL-FRA?
But basically LH/EW will gain a monopoly on MUC-HAM, MUC-CGN, HAM-STR. That is scary!!!
LH/EW is not taking over any AB routes, which start or land at TXL or DUS?
We can still expect to see some AB competition on routes like DUS-MUC, TXL-MUC, TXL-DUS, TXL-FRA?
But basically LH/EW will gain a monopoly on MUC-HAM, MUC-CGN, HAM-STR. That is scary!!!
Last edited by warakorn; Sep 13, 2016 at 9:48 am
Sep 13, 2016, 9:16 am
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LH is basically only interested in a wet-leasing arrangement; they will NOT be buying planes/staff, but merely "renting" them [and assuming all the risk; AB will be receiving a fixed sum regardless of how well/badly these services do, for the duration of the arrangement].
Sep 13, 2016, 9:50 am
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Ok, thanks for the clarification.
The OP wrote:
I assumed that this means that AB will be killed (e.g.) on MUC-HAM, MUC-CGN, HAM-STR.
The OP wrote:
Regarding to german daily paper Handelsblatt LH is in talks with EY to buy all AB routes that are not touching DUS or BER/TXL.
Sep 15, 2016, 2:23 am
#42
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I think the idea is to "prop up" Air Berlin so that competitors aren't effectively invited in in the event that it suddenly collapsed.
So Lufthansa will probably not want to cut routes to the extent that such action could similarly invite in competitors.
Besides, there may be competition concerns involved...regulators tend to look poorly on actions that reduce a duopoly to a monopoly, or that terminate routes...
So Lufthansa will probably not want to cut routes to the extent that such action could similarly invite in competitors.
Besides, there may be competition concerns involved...regulators tend to look poorly on actions that reduce a duopoly to a monopoly, or that terminate routes...
Sep 15, 2016, 2:39 am
#43
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I flew Ryanair from CGN to SXF
Last week for something like 30 euros and it was quite pleasant and half the price of Eurowings or air Berlin. This is the future of German domestic travel.
Last week for something like 30 euros and it was quite pleasant and half the price of Eurowings or air Berlin. This is the future of German domestic travel.
Sep 15, 2016, 4:11 am
#44
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They are planning a huge expansion in the German market in the coming years. It's currently only the 5th largest airline there with a 5% market share, wheras they are in the Top 3 in most other European markets; the LCC share of the German market is also noticeably low.
Lufthansa once crowed that the LCC model would not do well in Germany; however, by pushing the Germanwings and Eurowings models, they have assisted in eroding any remaining reluctance amongst their "loyal" customers.
And now we have the bizarre sight of LH apparently wishing to prop-up AB in the hopes of averting stiffer competition.
Lufthansa once crowed that the LCC model would not do well in Germany; however, by pushing the Germanwings and Eurowings models, they have assisted in eroding any remaining reluctance amongst their "loyal" customers.
And now we have the bizarre sight of LH apparently wishing to prop-up AB in the hopes of averting stiffer competition.
Sep 29, 2016, 2:25 am
#45
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Quite a few changes at Air Berlin yesterday.
Seems that Eurowings and Austrian will wet-lease 40 Air Berlin planes;
https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/pr...icle/4686.html
And Air Berlin are to move another 35 planes into a new tourism arm and make some job cuts.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...s-to-lufthansa
Seems that Eurowings and Austrian will wet-lease 40 Air Berlin planes;
https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/pr...icle/4686.html
Today Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Air Berlin PLC signed a letter of intent on the wet lease of up to 40 aircraft which will be operated by the Air Berlin Group for the Lufthansa Group companies Eurowings and Austrian Airlines
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...s-to-lufthansa
Air Berlin Plc announced the most sweeping job cuts in its history in a bid to rescue its ailing business, slashing its aircraft fleet by half as 40 jets are moved to arch-rival Deutsche Lufthansa AG and 35 others switch to a new tourism arm for which the company is evaluating options.
The equivalent of 1,200 full-time posts are likely to go from a current workforce of about 9,000 people, Air Berlin said in a statement after markets closed Wednesday. Shares of the unprofitable carrier rose on the news, gaining as much as 6.5 percent in early trading Thursday.
The three-way fleet split will leave Air Berlin’s main airline with 75 planes based at its Berlin and Dusseldorf hubs, including 17 Airbus Group SE A330 wide-bodies deployed on long-haul flights.
The equivalent of 1,200 full-time posts are likely to go from a current workforce of about 9,000 people, Air Berlin said in a statement after markets closed Wednesday. Shares of the unprofitable carrier rose on the news, gaining as much as 6.5 percent in early trading Thursday.
The three-way fleet split will leave Air Berlin’s main airline with 75 planes based at its Berlin and Dusseldorf hubs, including 17 Airbus Group SE A330 wide-bodies deployed on long-haul flights.