JFK-AKL diversions begin.

Old Oct 3, 22, 7:54 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth View Post
I'm more than happy to knock NZ and I've flown them quite a bit. Which is why I knock them and try to avoid flying them since ~2005. They are one of my least favourite airlines. I'd even rather fly one of the mainline US carriers (Alaska) over NZ.
I mean this is a non sequitur. Alaska isn't bad but trying to avoid NZ on intra-NZ hour long flights is like trying to avoid AS on ANC-JNU. Who cares?
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Old Oct 3, 22, 1:35 pm
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth View Post
I'm more than happy to knock NZ and I've flown them quite a bit. Which is why I knock them and try to avoid flying them since ~2005. They are one of my least favourite airlines. I'd even rather fly one of the mainline US carriers (Alaska) over NZ.
But there is a big difference between flying them and knocking them (which is something plenty of us on here including myself have done plenty of times) vs just having a negative view and expressing negative opinions about a product and an airline that you've never experienced.
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Old Oct 3, 22, 1:51 pm
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Originally Posted by prelude View Post
...well.

Speaking of this, I am curious how they do the calculations for MTOWs in estimating passenger weights. Regardless of fairness, I know for a fact a lot of the time myself and my luggage combined would be significantly lighter than most individual passengers in a cabin. Do they just assume that (conservatively) everybody in the cabin is 100 kg for example or do they use some creative mathematics/modelling?

What if you have a whole plane full of rugby players... surely they will be much heavier than a plane full of high school children on tour?
ICAO has a guideline of 90kg. https://www.icao.int/Meetings/STA10/...0_Wp005_en.pdf
In Canada TC (Cdn version of CA) break it down to gender and season given Canadian winters and required clothing.
Air NZ will have regional differences such as Pacific Islands
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Old Oct 3, 22, 2:03 pm
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Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
Air NZ have an aircraft that's perfectly capable of flying this route.
So far they have shown they don't.
If the aircraft is not filled, no headwind and everyone has a bowel movement before boarding, it may make it. That is not an aircraft "perfectly capable"
A perfectly capable aircraft would be filled (albeit with reduced seat numbers, all business/Prem Y given distance), filled at premium prices, with everyone's luggage on board and make the distance.
Not the taking a knife to a gunfight approach that Air NZ has done.
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Old Oct 3, 22, 2:55 pm
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Originally Posted by taupo View Post
So far they have shown they don't.
If the aircraft is not filled, no headwind and everyone has a bowel movement before boarding, it may make it. That is not an aircraft "perfectly capable"
A perfectly capable aircraft would be filled (albeit with reduced seat numbers, all business/Prem Y given distance), filled at premium prices, with everyone's luggage on board and make the distance.
Not the taking a knife to a gunfight approach that Air NZ has done.
There is flying the route which they are doing. Plane is doing this happily.

Then there is flying a route in a commercially sustainable way, which they are most probably struggling with. And QF flying the route from March will make it hard for AirNZ, as will look bad if they can't make it work. Some white tails or GE 789s in a desert will be super handy right now, I would guess.
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Old Oct 3, 22, 5:40 pm
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Originally Posted by nk15 View Post
How long until they start weighing passengers...
1. Americans are on average fat and heavier
2. Americans love carry ons. They also get streesed out about bin space

There are other stereotypes here which I won't mention, I've lived in Europe for many years now, I can stay that with certainty .

I am not the typical traveller, I usually check bags and don't care about carry on space because I'm usually in a premium cabin where an entire bin is at my disposal.
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Old Oct 3, 22, 6:11 pm
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Originally Posted by nzkarit View Post
There is flying the route which they are doing. Plane is doing this happily.

Then there is flying a route in a commercially sustainable way, which they are most probably struggling with. And QF flying the route from March will make it hard for AirNZ, as will look bad if they can't make it work. Some white tails or GE 789s in a desert will be super handy right now, I would guess.
The GE powered 789 isn't some sort of magical plane. It still has the same MTOW and fuel capacity as the Air NZ RR 789s

What it does have is a very marginal performance benefit, and as to ether or not that will make a material difference is something we're not going to know until they start flying the route.
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Old Oct 3, 22, 11:11 pm
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I think its funny that this thread I started has taken a life of its own. Lets note

1) Not a single NZ1 flight has actually been diverted. Though they came quite close.

2) Other than 60 bags been offloaded on the first day, nothing bad has happened so far.

3) As a result, the pax count has been reduced even further, which has improved flight performance.


What I will note is the following :

The flight has been consistently late, leaving and arriving an several hours past their scheduled time. Once the departure performance improves, I guess NZ has figured out the kinks. However, northern winter is coming, lets hope they don't need to cut the pax numbers even further.
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Old Oct 4, 22, 6:23 am
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We flew in Y from Sydney to NYC via Auckland last week.
We fly the reverse route in November.
After flying to NYC from Sydney with United multiple times over 20 years I can say the ANZ flights were the best by far, crew, comfort and food wise.
This will be our route of choice from now on.
So we can’t ‘knock’ ANZ at all.
Our trip to the Cooks years ago was a similar experience.
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Old Oct 5, 22, 8:37 am
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Originally Posted by nzkarit View Post
Link? Just interested in wording around status etc
At this stage it seems to just be limited to fares sold from Australia. Economy fares to the US from Australia include two checked bags (only 1 bag from NZ). It seems like a very strange change to make as I doubt they've got a lot of bookings from AU to JFK via AKL.
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Old Oct 5, 22, 1:06 pm
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Originally Posted by henrus View Post
At this stage it seems to just be limited to fares sold from Australia. Economy fares to the US from Australia include two checked bags (only 1 bag from NZ). It seems like a very strange change to make as I doubt they've got a lot of bookings from AU to JFK via AKL.
The ex-AU base is a key market to make this viable, not sure where your assumption comes from here
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Old Oct 5, 22, 1:14 pm
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Originally Posted by samyoull View Post
The ex-AU base is a key market to make this viable, not sure where your assumption comes from here
Yeah there is a lot of transit on to the evening NA departures from Aussie.

There is a market as QANTAS is also going to offer AKL-JFK non stop. But that they may be more a sign that Domestic to/from International is a mess in Sydney. And people can start the journeys later if meet on Auckland than be in Sydney prior to the nothing departure.
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Old Oct 5, 22, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by samyoull View Post
The ex-AU base is a key market to make this viable, not sure where your assumption comes from here
Originally Posted by nzkarit View Post
Yeah there is a lot of transit on to the evening NA departures from Aussie.

There is a market as QANTAS is also going to offer AKL-JFK non stop. But that they may be more a sign that Domestic to/from International is a mess in Sydney. And people can start the journeys later if meet on Auckland than be in Sydney prior to the nothing departure.
For people not in living in SYD, transiting airside AKL is better than the SYD T1 I<----> T2-T3 D shuffle. A majority of people in AU *do not* live in Sydney.

JFK is about ~1100 miles closer to AKL than SYD. Hence the QF flight
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Old Oct 6, 22, 1:05 am
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Hey all,

Despite all of this and the potential refuel in NAN, I would fly this route ANY day over being subjected to a 1-stop option through some horrible US airport. There is something very satisfying in know the bird you leave your origin on will be the one arrives at your home gate! I suspect our US based friends are beaten down by the poor offerings in most US carriers as well as used to the prison like conditions with TSA (thank god for global entry and TSA pre check!).
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Last edited by JANZFlyer; Oct 7, 22 at 3:20 am Reason: typo
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Old Oct 6, 22, 4:38 am
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Slightly OT

if one was looking to go NZ via JFK to France, is it fair to say theres tight verging on impossible connections for same night flights?

Cant seem to see any day flights to CDG from JFK eitherwas thinking of trying the TWA hotel, but thinking it might be better heading to city, then EWR. (not fussed on star alliance, happy to mix it up)
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