US DOT rule applicability

Old Jun 12, 2020, 12:48 am
  #196  
 
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I agree, kiwicyclo, that point of sale is a nonissue. DOT rules typically apply to flights to/from the US. Occasionally DOT will discuss rules that differ, say, for flights to the US versus from the US. Tarmac delay is a classic example, and this was discussed at length in the rulemaking process.

hoipolloi, my instinct is to start with the black letter of the law and regulation, which tellingly give no support to ANZ's position or to use of point of sale. Let them try to offer some authority that their position is correct. Good luck to them -- I say they cannot do it!
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Old Jun 12, 2020, 5:00 am
  #197  
 
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Originally Posted by bedelman
I agree, kiwicyclo, that point of sale is a nonissue. DOT rules typically apply to flights to/from the US. Occasionally DOT will discuss rules that differ, say, for flights to the US versus from the US. Tarmac delay is a classic example, and this was discussed at length in the rulemaking process.

hoipolloi, my instinct is to start with the black letter of the law and regulation, which tellingly give no support to ANZ's position or to use of point of sale. Let them try to offer some authority that their position is correct. Good luck to them -- I say they cannot do it!
i have had 2 instances where Air New Zealand refused a credit or refund.

1. USA citizen / passport holder flying USA to NZ return on air NZ booked via NZ TA, paid for in NZD on my credit card. Air NZ were adamant no refund no credit. Air NZ cancelled flights offered no alternative. DOT consumer compliant laid and about 14 days later Air NZ responded to DOT complaint and said they had incorrectly stated no refund or credit and would now refund in full.

2. 3 x PE flights NZ to USA and return. Air NZ cancelled offered no alternative and offered to provide a credit only of just on $13000. TA referenced DOT requirements back to Agency Team and refund appeared in full about 14 days later.

both above for travel between 5-29 May this year.
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Old Jun 16, 2020, 8:25 am
  #198  
 
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Help!

So Ive tried to read through all of your comments and am very over whelmed trying to understand!
I have flights booked via Air Canada, Air New Zealand, Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines with everyone flight departing from or arriving In the US. Air New Zealand flights and Alaska Airlines were booked via an Australian travel agent Flight Centre. Air canada I booked directly on their website along with Hawaiin Airlines. Our flights have been cancelled. None of the airlines are offering refunds with some offering credits. We are unable to travel again in near future so unfortunately credits are no good to us. I am very confused as to whether or not DOT regulations apply to Australian citizens and how this can be enforced. I cannot find anywhere specific legal references for me to quote. Everyones argument is they are only applicable if you are a US resident.
My bank is also not processing chargebacks stating that a credit is a reasonable resolution and taking the airlines side.
Thanks in advance!!
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Old Jun 16, 2020, 12:56 pm
  #199  
 
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Welcome to FlyerTalk.

First, you must deal with Flight Centre as your arrangements were booked through them.

If it was all booked on one ticket, but with many sectors & carriers, and there was a flight to/from the US, then the DoT ruling applies. This is applicable to every nationality, not just US citizens.

For members to post any thoughts on your situation, it will be very useful if you can provide the details of the the route. You seem to describe a number of return flights, each to or from the US.
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Old Jun 16, 2020, 3:16 pm
  #200  
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Originally Posted by Deejay09
I am very confused as to whether or not DOT regulations apply to Australian citizens and how this can be enforced.
Your nationality, citizenship, residency, etc. do not have an effect. What matters is whenever your flight begins or ends anywhere within the U.S.

If you have ever discussed with any of the airlines (Note - the airlines, not the TA you booked from) you mentioned, you have done your part. Simply file a complaint with DOT and the airlines will be forced to handle the rest.

Note - the TA situation can be kind of complicated. Even DOT has no jurisdiction over TAs, it still has the jurisdiction over the airlines. The airlines should be able to work with you on this. However, given that you paid a 3rd party, you will still need to work with the TA on how the money goes back to you (as the TA will usually receive the refund first unless the airline received the money directly from you (your statement will tell who was the one getting the money)).

Originally Posted by Deejay09
My bank is also not processing chargebacks stating that a credit is a reasonable resolution and taking the airlines side.
Your bank may be in violation of any local consumer law. However, I would not comment further as this is related to DOT applicability.
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 3:22 am
  #201  
 
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth
I don't see that the current situation has changed existing trading law - the govt hasn't slipped through a law change on that front, have they? I have gone through this with NZ in disputes tribunal once in the past, but that wasn't this exact current situation - same general situation though. It took less than 10 minutes for the DT to rule in my favour.

I can let you know about the current situation and NZ after June 25th at 1:30pm...
And the result: NZ ordered to refund my tickets within 7 days. The hearing lasted a whole 20 minutes. Shame it's not precedent setting.
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Old Jun 25, 2020, 4:45 am
  #202  
 
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Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth
And the result: NZ ordered to refund my tickets within 7 days. The hearing lasted a whole 20 minutes. Shame it's not precedent setting.
What tickets?
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Old Jun 26, 2020, 12:34 am
  #203  
 
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Originally Posted by sbiddle
What tickets?
Non refundable J AKL-LAX rtn, x 2 trips
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Old Jun 26, 2020, 4:50 pm
  #204  
 
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I'm confused. You lodged a DT case for flights to the US when Air NZ have been refunding US flights for quite some time?
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Old Jun 26, 2020, 5:16 pm
  #205  
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Originally Posted by sbiddle
I'm confused. You lodged a DT case for flights to the US when Air NZ have been refunding US flights for quite some time?
Especially when OP lodged a DT complaint alleging violation of the U.S. law instead of NZ.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 9:11 pm
  #206  
 
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Originally Posted by sbiddle
I'm confused. You lodged a DT case for flights to the US when Air NZ have been refunding US flights for quite some time?
NZ weren't refunding them when I filed the claim and I had completely forgotten at the time about the DOT rules. Given how NZ were in dealing with me I decided that I wanted to see what the case would do, rather than drop the case and go via DOT.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 9:28 pm
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Originally Posted by garykung
Especially when OP lodged a DT complaint alleging violation of the U.S. law instead of NZ.
What on earth are you going on about? Are you talking about the actual OP or me? Either way, you're mistaken on both fronts.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 10:28 pm
  #208  
 
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It's very interesting to see Air Canada take on the DOT. They're arguing that DOT refund rules are not enforceable.
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 11:33 pm
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Originally Posted by sbiddle
It's very interesting to see Air Canada take on the DOT. They're arguing that DOT refund rules are not enforceable.
Suppose will Canada play hard ball & say if US block Air Canada, US airlines are blocked from Canada.
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 6:04 pm
  #210  
 
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For all my cancelled AKL - US flights ticketed by NZ, I called earlier this month and got everything refunded and the money appeared in my CC in 2- 3 days.
But only last night I remembered that I had purchased upgrades from Y to J separately with United on the internal US flights (bought PE fares from NZ so was booked in economy for the UA domestic leg), so called them to arrange refunds which was altogether around $600 USD.
I simply forgot about those paid upgrades & I didn't put them in the "status points" spreadsheet I used to maintain, so just raising this in case others are on the same boat
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