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-   Air New Zealand | Air Points (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points-440/)
-   -   Expert flyer vs ANZ seat map (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points/1966273-expert-flyer-vs-anz-seat-map.html)

freemark Apr 21, 2019 1:20 am
Expert flyer vs ANZ seat map
 
Seat map (Y) on NZ website shows many empty seats, EF shows virtually nil all cabins. (NZ6 09/05)
Standard EF inaccuracy or a timing issue?
Dummy booking allows 6 seats (at least) in PE & BP.
I also would have thought more no-charge seats in Y available as NZG.
Should I be reasonably confident about RU’s going through?

Thai-Kiwi Apr 21, 2019 7:29 am
Originally Posted by freemark (Post 31021789)
Seat map (Y) on NZ website shows many empty seats, EF shows virtually nil all cabins. (NZ6 09/05)
Standard EF inaccuracy or a timing issue?
Dummy booking allows 6 seats (at least) in PE & BP.
I also would have thought more no-charge seats in Y available as NZG.
Should I be reasonably confident about RU’s going through?
EF cannot relaibly ‘see’ the premium section of NZ’s cabin - they always appear full on EF.

Dummy booking on NZ the best methid as you've done.

mad_atta Apr 21, 2019 8:49 am
This is a new phenomenon, in my experience at least. I found EF's seat maps for NZ were accurate until about a month ago. Hoping it's temporary...

libertyuk Apr 21, 2019 9:49 am
I've found EF never shows the Space + seat availability on A320s, and likewise never the exit row or FF priority rows in cabins. Dummy booking is the only way to know. By contrast, QF shows such seats as blocked, unless they are allocated.

NZ_Flyer Apr 21, 2019 1:54 pm
I personally never use EF for NZ seat map checks as NZ doesn’t allow EF to actually see blocked vs allocated vs FF searing accurately as others have mentioned. QF seat maps on EF on the the other hand are incredibly accurate even once the flight has been closed/committed by the airport teams.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 21, 2019 9:30 pm
Originally Posted by freemark (Post 31021789)
Seat map (Y) on NZ website shows many empty seats, EF shows virtually nil all cabins. (NZ6 09/05)
Standard EF inaccuracy or a timing issue?
Dummy booking allows 6 seats (at least) in PE & BP.
I also would have thought more no-charge seats in Y available as NZG.
Should I be reasonably confident about RU’s going through?
We accurately show the seat map as NZ returns it, the same seat map that all travel agents see. We can request the seat map with different class codes if need be. However since you haven't told us what to look for we don't see what the issue is as all the seat maps for that flight show plenty of available seats. If you email us a more detailed explanation of the seats that should be available but aren't that would be helpful.

bce1 Apr 21, 2019 11:21 pm
Good to see a company rep around.
Can you start asking NZ for R class then please? My sub lapsed when you stopped publishing those
Thats the one that would be really useful

Craig

WLGNZ Apr 21, 2019 11:27 pm
Originally Posted by bce1 (Post 31024231)
Good to see a company rep around.
Can you start asking NZ for R class then please? My sub lapsed when you stopped publishing those
Thats the one that would be really useful

Craig
+1
I also let my sub lapse for the same reason.

sbiddle Apr 22, 2019 2:44 am
Air NZ don't publish R glass in GDS so it's impossible to show it. Air NZ will never change this, but when they're happy to provide availability if you call I don't really see it being a big deal.

You can however see A class when it's available as a paid fare class.

freemark Apr 22, 2019 5:17 am
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31024055)
We accurately show the seat map as NZ returns it, the same seat map that all travel agents see. We can request the seat map with different class codes if need be. However since you haven't told us what to look for we don't see what the issue is as all the seat maps for that flight show plenty of available seats. If you email us a more detailed explanation of the seats that should be available but aren't that would be helpful.
Thanks for a response. I must admit I’m no EF expert, and I’m looking on a mobile, but when I look at seat alert I get following on the cabins: Am I doing it all wrong?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...e775f21845.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...ab81901d47.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...650d1859d1.png

findark Apr 22, 2019 2:34 pm
Pretty sure NZ often publishes seats with special restrictions (like elite-only seats) as "assigned" to the GDS so there is nothing that EF can do.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 22, 2019 11:48 pm
Originally Posted by freemark (Post 31024749)


Thanks for a response. I must admit I’m no EF expert, and I’m looking on a mobile, but when I look at seat alert I get following on the cabins: Am I doing it all wrong?

It would help if you told us which seats you thought shouldn't be Occupied. Please email us with details, thanks.

Thai-Kiwi Apr 23, 2019 3:40 am
8 Attachment(s)
@freemark were you trying to setup a 'seat alert' on EF? You simply posted the seat map? Alerts are a different process to simply viewing the map - but quite easy to do and very useful.

@ExpertFlyer Voice I am a 10 year+ Premium subscriber. First, thanks!
Second, the NZ domestic seat map forward cabin is usually showing completely blocked...

See the attached example flying AKL-WLG 29 Apr. As a *Gold status I can see the forward cabin availability, but this is blocked off to non *Golds and to ExpertFlyer. Specifically, I can see 01C, 03F, 05C, and 06D are unoccupied. EF shows these as occupied.

Could you gain access the 'actually available' seat map if the *Gold status is reflected in the EF profile? Or does NZ prevent access?

Cheers, TK

libertyuk Apr 23, 2019 11:07 am
Thai-Kiwi has ably illustrated exactly my issue. I have subscribed to EF for around eight years, and find it highly useful, but my issue is that with *G status (with NZ, although I know people with *G status with other programmes who have similar access) all of the seats set aside for frequent flyers with *G status are shown as occupied. This is different than QF, where such seats are shown as blocked (but I am aware that my status opens up availability of those). At the very least they should only be shown as blocked, but ideally if the EF membership with the *A programme number can access those frequent flyer seats, it would make use of Air NZ in EF much more useful.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 23, 2019 4:24 pm
Originally Posted by libertyuk (Post 31029359)
Thai-Kiwi has ably illustrated exactly my issue. I have subscribed to EF for around eight years, and find it highly useful, but my issue is that with *G status (with NZ, although I know people with *G status with other programmes who have similar access) all of the seats set aside for frequent flyers with *G status are shown as occupied. This is different than QF, where such seats are shown as blocked (but I am aware that my status opens up availability of those). At the very least they should only be shown as blocked, but ideally if the EF membership with the *A programme number can access those frequent flyer seats, it would make use of Air NZ in EF much more useful.
Then it would be helpful if one of you could email us directly with your account info and your NZ FF# so we can test if sending that in with the Seat Map search, as we do with other airlines, will show a different seat map.

Eltham Apr 24, 2019 12:43 am
Strikes me as a bit odd to say the least that some of us pay for the service and are then expected to do their work for them.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 24, 2019 10:06 am
Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 31031553)
Strikes me as a bit odd to say the least that some of us pay for the service and are then expected to do their work for them.
As no one on the EF staff as NZ elite FF#, no it's not odd. We like to work with our customers to test improvements like this before rolling them out so we know they work.

findark Apr 24, 2019 10:23 am
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31032884)
As no one on the EF staff as NZ elite FF#, no it's not odd. We like to work with our customers to test improvements like this before rolling them out so we know they work.
FYI, any account with *G should work in terms of displaying the "correct" seatmap. I suspect the core issue is that NZ publishes the seatmap with the blocked seats occupied instead of blocked though.

I used as an example NZ401 AKL-WLG on Friday 2 August - all of rows 1-10 and 27-29 show occupied, when they are in reality just blocked. (Any NZ domestic flight should be the same.)

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 24, 2019 10:40 am
Originally Posted by findark (Post 31032949)
FYI, any account with *G should work in terms of displaying the "correct" seatmap. I suspect the core issue is that NZ publishes the seatmap with the blocked seats occupied instead of blocked though.

I used as an example NZ401 AKL-WLG on Friday 2 August - all of rows 1-10 and 27-29 show occupied, when they are in reality just blocked. (Any NZ domestic flight should be the same.)
Correct, but when passing in a FF# that has elite status with the seat map request, seats that were Occupied instead get returned as just Blocked or even Available. If you look at the Preferences tab on the My Account page you'll see that we do this with other airlines that we know do this.

findark Apr 24, 2019 3:44 pm
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31033009)
Correct, but when passing in a FF# that has elite status with the seat map request, seats that were Occupied instead get returned as just Blocked or even Available. If you look at the Preferences tab on the My Account page you'll see that we do this with other airlines that we know do this.
Do you need an NZ FF number? Any account with *G (any airline) will display the correct seatmap (for elite seating, not for blocks) on airnewzealand.co.nz.

freemark Apr 24, 2019 3:57 pm
I must have been mistaken on how EF works. I have a free account, limited options available to me (seat alert ) and I thought that it was a good way to check on how many seats available (ie how full the flight).
I’ll get my hat (and read the instructions)

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 24, 2019 8:24 pm
Elite Seat Maps for NZ now available
 
Thanks to your help we have added an option on the Preferences tab of the My Account page to add your FF# for Air New Zealand. When you do that, and if your name on your EF account is the same as your NZ FF account, then you'll see a seat map that more closely corresponds with the seat map you see with your elite status.

Thai-Kiwi Apr 24, 2019 8:42 pm
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31034611)
Thanks to your help we have added an option on the Preferences tab of the My Account page to add your FF# for Air New Zealand. When you do that, and if your name on your EF account is the same as your NZ FF account, then you'll see a seat map that more closely corresponds with the seat map you see with your elite status.
Thanks. Does this mean you parse actual customer account info to gain seats maps rather than querying a GDS as a Travel Agent would do?

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 24, 2019 9:30 pm
Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi (Post 31034644)


Thanks. Does this mean you parse actual customer account info to gain seats maps rather than querying a GDS as a Travel Agent would do?
No, we send the FF# in with the Seat Map request to the GDS, as a travel agent does. We don't ask for any passwords.

libertyuk Apr 25, 2019 2:39 am
I've checked this and it works with my NZ Airpoints number. There is an option for the LH FF number, but no other *A ones. Regardless, this is a definite improvement from EF in my view.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 25, 2019 7:34 am
Originally Posted by libertyuk (Post 31035198)
I've checked this and it works with my NZ Airpoints number. There is an option for the LH FF number, but no other *A ones. Regardless, this is a definite improvement from EF in my view.
You can put any FF# for any airline you want. That's why the NZ line has 2 fields, one for the FF# and the other for the airline of the FF program. Same as all the other airlines that support FF numbers for seat maps listed on that page.

Top of climb Apr 25, 2019 4:12 pm
Originally Posted by freemark (Post 31033996)
I must have been mistaken on how EF works. I have a free account, limited options available to me (seat alert ) and I thought that it was a good way to check on how many seats available (ie how full the flight).
I’ll get my hat (and read the instructions)
No, you are doing it right (up to a point). Seat alert returns the seat map as at the time of the request. However, the seat map is not a good way to check how many seats are available necessarily as up to T-72 (when Airport Control seats everyone who has not yet pre-allocated a seat) there will be people who have booked tickets but might not have selected seats.

ExpertFlyer Voice Apr 26, 2019 10:38 pm
Originally Posted by Top of climb (Post 31037419)
No, you are doing it right (up to a point). Seat alert returns the seat map as at the time of the request. However, the seat map is not a good way to check how many seats are available necessarily as up to T-72 (when Airport Control seats everyone who has not yet pre-allocated a seat) there will be people who have booked tickets but might not have selected seats.
To see the amount of tickets in various fare classes available for sale, you would do a Flight Availability search which is part of the Pro service.

sbiddle Apr 27, 2019 1:57 am
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31041565)
To see the amount of tickets in various fare classes available for sale, you would do a Flight Availability search which is part of the Pro service.
Except Air NZ only release up to 9 seats at a time so how useful that is depends entirely on the situation.

drajknox Apr 27, 2019 3:56 am
Originally Posted by sbiddle (Post 31041819)
Except Air NZ only release up to 9 seats at a time so how useful that is depends entirely on the situation.
And on occasion they seem to show no availability even when trying to book when in fact seats exist.
I am off to TPE for a quick trip next week - no direct NZ flight that day and told TA I wanted to fly NZ. They wanted to send me via HKG but no Business Class avail even via NZ booking engine. Told them I had to go Business Class and that I was happy to go via PVG with EVA to TPE. They told me they were confident they could WL me and that I’d get a Business Class seat then CX to TPE. Sure enough within 24hr they confirmed my booking (>1 month ago) and there was a brief period of availability on NZ87 in C class. This then disappeared again however intermittently availability has shown over the last few weeks. Interestingly when available C class on the same flight connecting to a business class CX HKG-TPE flight was approx $1060 cheaper than the same flight in C class ending in HKG - presumably NZ trying to maximise revenue with HKG terminating customers who with less aggressive competitive pricing would pay more but to fill business were at times happy to sell connecting business fares to compete with significantly cheaper business class direct fares AKL-TPE on China Airlines.

kiwifrequentflyer Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am
I can't believe how ungrateful so many people sound in this thread. Thank you guys for taking the time to add this feature, it is much appreciated!

Eltham Apr 27, 2019 2:52 pm
Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer (Post 31042608)
I can't believe how ungrateful so many people sound in this thread. Thank you guys for taking the time to add this feature, it is much appreciated!
Some of us are paying for a service and not receiving it. Ungrateful doesn’t come into it. It’s about (lack of) professionalism and poor customer communication.

NZbutterfly Apr 27, 2019 6:56 pm
Originally Posted by drajknox (Post 31041966)
....Interestingly when available C class on the same flight connecting to a business class CX HKG-TPE flight was approx $1060 cheaper than the same flight in C class ending in HKG - presumably NZ trying to maximise revenue with HKG terminating customers who with less aggressive competitive pricing would pay more but to fill business were at times happy to sell connecting business fares to compete with significantly cheaper business class direct fares AKL-TPE on China Airlines.
Not too uncommon. There are sites that discuss these tricks/observations. If you add on a leg to itineraries it sometimes works out cheaper and those flying hand luggage only throw away the last leg. Not supposed to be done but people do this. If you fly Qantas business domestic Perth to Melbourne it's nzd2446. If you buy Perth to Melbourne to Auckland price drops to nzd1526.

Sometimes a return ticket is cheaper than a one way so people buy the return and don't use it.

kiwifrequentflyer Apr 28, 2019 2:53 am
Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 31043484)


Some of us are paying for a service and not receiving it. Ungrateful doesn’t come into it. It’s about (lack of) professionalism and poor customer communication.
If you have been paying for it without these features then you bought it regardless. These are new features you didn't pay for and it's nice they added them for such a niche airline and talked directly to us.

Eltham Apr 28, 2019 4:16 am
Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer (Post 31044745)
If you have been paying for it without these features then you bought it regardless. These are new features you didn't pay for and it's nice they added them for such a niche airline and talked directly to us.
I don’t think you understand much about business, customer service or professionalism. Anyway, glad all’s well in your world.

kiwifrequentflyer Apr 28, 2019 12:25 pm
Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 31044860)


I don’t think you understand much about business, customer service or professionalism. Anyway, glad all’s well in your world.
Haha. What a snarky comment. Unfortunately this forum is one of the most ridiculous to make such a comment because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford my business class seats.

Eltham Apr 28, 2019 1:42 pm
Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer (Post 31046002)
Haha. What a snarky comment. Unfortunately this forum is one of the most ridiculous to make such a comment because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford my business class seats.
You pay for business class seats?

kiwifrequentflyer Apr 28, 2019 9:44 pm
Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 31046210)


You pay for business class seats?
Yes... When I can't find ways to get upgrades that is, haha.

mad_atta May 2, 2019 5:07 am
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice (Post 31035747)
You can put any FF# for any airline you want. That's why the NZ line has 2 fields, one for the FF# and the other for the airline of the FF program. Same as all the other airlines that support FF numbers for seat maps listed on that page.
This is a great feature - thank you for adding ^

Ellice May 7, 2019 2:52 pm
Helpful discussion, I wasn’t even aware of the preferences page on EF. will give it a go linking my Airpoints number today.


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