New frequent traveler survey

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Old Feb 15, 19, 12:14 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Beano View Post
SP only on Airnz tickets.
that would free up the lounges :-)
This is basically already true in my experience.

So many ineligible booking classes on *A airlines and no guarantee of earning points/SP on NZ-ticketed codeshares.

And when you do book a *A flight that should earn, it doesnt necessarily ever show up in your account even after doing a "claim".
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Old Feb 15, 19, 1:26 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by cavemanzk View Post
I've never had any issues with JQNZ domestic flights crediting within a couple of days of departure.
I think it's more of an issue with Aussie JQ but definitely well documented there.

Originally Posted by ps107 View Post
This is basically already true in my experience.

So many ineligible booking classes on *A airlines and no guarantee of earning points/SP on NZ-ticketed codeshares.

And when you do book a *A flight that should earn, it doesnt necessarily ever show up in your account even after doing a "claim".
Partner earn issues aren't isolated to NZ. eg Qantas is also painful.

If I have the choice between points and lower fares I'll take the lower fares with zero earn. Saving $ is something tangible to me, whereas points devalue over time.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 1:38 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by NZbutterfly View Post
Partner earn issues aren't isolated to NZ. eg Qantas is also painful.

If I have the choice between points and lower fares I'll take the lower fares with zero earn. Saving $ is something tangible to me, whereas points devalue over time.
One thing I like about QFF is if you buy a QF-ticketed codeshare, it earns the same as if it was a QF plane.

With AirNZ, I find it's often the higher fare that earns less points
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Old Feb 15, 19, 2:49 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by mrawesomeness View Post
Not sure if this is the best place to add my to cents worth so delete or move if deemed irrelevant
From a very lowly Koru Member here, I appreciate that I don't spend anywhere near as much money on flights (either domestically or international) when compared to a significant number of fine folk here. I get very little work paid for domestic flying (have to drive instead) and due to study commitment of the better half, don't do much international either.

But

When I do I'd like to have a selection of the comforts and benefits of those that have earned the right to have them, hence why I am prepared to pay for Koru. I can see why some would like to see these prices increased but why should our subscription/membership prices be an easy/first target.
In regards of the full lounges, unlike those that get lounge passes with credit card spend, I have at least given a significant dollar value to AirNZ.
Rather than pick on those that have paid to enjoy some benefits, how about doing away wth credit card sourced lounge passes. Or start enforcing a no guest if lounge is full option or no vouchers accepted if full etc.?
While I don't see any need to add to the list of available benefits to Koru Members, if some are taken away or the price increased substantially, they may end up driving away a number of customers and loose some potentially easy revenue

While I may draw some flak for the above, how is a customer that has paid for Koru/Economy any different from a customer who is Elite and paid for J and all the good things that go with that. At the end of the day they are both a customer who is prepared to pay for a level of service/experience that they individually feel right for them. By all means look after the Elites as they have earned their status/benefits/perks (I look at those Elite bag tags with supreme envy) but don't shaft those that aren't in that situation.
i have a lot of sympathy for some of the points you have made. However there are a few errors in your argument - Air NZ makes significant revenue from selling lounge passes, APD and SP to banks who use these as loyalty incentive for customers - in many cases probably more for some customers than the cost of Koru Membership.

it takes a lot of flying to achieve Gold let alone Elite. I too pay for much of my own travel. It is not easy despite what some have said here. For years I had to work hard to maintain Gold. I even did status runs on a few weekends flying AKL-WLG-AKL-WLG-AKL on a couple of days in the past. I valued the Gold extra cabin bag/extra luggage/better phone service so worked hard to stay Gold, choose more expensive flights on NZ over cheaper alternatives and sometimes overshot my SP requirement but was keen to maintain at least Gold.

If you fly mainly main centre domestically and Trans-Tasman Elite is very difficult. Regional is even worse. You would have to potentially fly AKL-NPE-AKL 188 times (376 flights) in a year if that was the only route you took and AKL-IVC-AKL 107 times (214 flights) if that was your exclusive route.

Yes Iím now Elite but only because Iíve been lucky enough to do some pretty expensive long haul J travel such as AKL-IAH-DFW-IAH-AKL last November which cost $12.6k for that trip alone. I should requalify again this year but again only with expensive long haul J flights. Most of us know that J on NZ is often significantly dearer than other J alternatives and while the soft product is good with generally good service the hard product is somewhat dated.

In terms of your question how is a Koru/Economy passenger different to an Elite passenger the answer is they have paid significantly LESS in terms of premium to achieve their status. In fact the value from KORU per dollar premium paid clearly exceeds that that we get from Elite and certainly that which Gold members get in my opinion. While long haul J has some nice touches what we pay for it vastly exceeds worth in true dollar terms - some of choose to do it because we are lucky enough to be able to pay the premium to enjoy a somewhat better experience but there is no doubt we are paying a significant premium.

i wonder whether Koru should lose guest privileges but allow a guest membership at 75% of base cost, Gold should still have a lounge guest, and Elite remain unchanged.

Last edited by drajknox; Feb 15, 19 at 2:57 am
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Old Feb 15, 19, 3:01 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by ps107 View Post
One thing I like about QFF is if you buy a QF-ticketed codeshare, it earns the same as if it was a QF plane.

With AirNZ, I find it's often the higher fare that earns less points
Every programme has its quirks. Buying QF coded EK was always a bit more expensive than direct with EK, I think LA is as well. Paid CX PE and earn was same as regular economy QF
Not a major fan of QF taxes/fees on redemptions either. NZ is really good in that dept although there's the earn of APD via flying. I think I had an SQ flight that didn't earn much to NZ but I just credit SQ to SQ now.

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I expect all loyalty programs to go downhill. Seems to be the trend.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 11:21 am
  #51  
 
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I got the email overnight.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 11:26 am
  #52  
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Old Feb 15, 19, 12:20 pm
  #53  
 
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Just received it
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Old Feb 15, 19, 12:23 pm
  #54  
 
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Got mine late yesterday afternoon. Interestingly some of my questions were different from my wife's even though we are both Elite and our responses to the initial questions were basically the same.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 3:43 pm
  #55  
 
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Got it this morning. Odd survey. I feel like they should already have this data from the CRM/customer feedback - which can be easily aggregated.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 6:28 pm
  #56  
 
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I got this today, so they really are spreading out the emailing of their members.

For me, I've soft landed from Elite to Silver, so a lot of the questions were around why that happened and what I thought of Elite benefits.
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Old Feb 17, 19, 5:54 pm
  #57  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Just got it and filled it in. My feedback was basically the same as those here - the program doesn't even resemble a frequent flyer program so much as a frequent credit card spender program. QF Loyalty has managed to pull in as much as QF International, despite not selling status credits to anyone - even on QF Money issued cards - so why is it so important that NZ Loyalty continue to sell status directly? Added onto the ridiculously poor earn and burn rates - especially the lack of status earn on APD any seat redemptions (QF and Velocity issue status credits on any seat awards as if paid in cash, just not classic awards which is fair), and abysmal availability of R, X and I inventory.

I am going to agree with those here saying it's unfair to pick on Koru though. The Koru benefits are comparable to those of Qantas Club, and in fact inferior to those of United Club or Air Canada Maple Leaf despite them being around the same price or less expensive than Koru.
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Old Feb 17, 19, 10:17 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by kyanar View Post
Just got it and filled it in. My feedback was basically the same as those here - the program doesn't even resemble a frequent flyer program so much as a frequent credit card spender program. QF Loyalty has managed to pull in as much as QF International, despite not selling status credits to anyone - even on QF Money issued cards - so why is it so important that NZ Loyalty continue to sell status directly? Added onto the ridiculously poor earn and burn rates - especially the lack of status earn on APD any seat redemptions (QF and Velocity issue status credits on any seat awards as if paid in cash, just not classic awards which is fair), and abysmal availability of R, X and I inventory.

I am going to agree with those here saying it's unfair to pick on Koru though. The Koru benefits are comparable to those of Qantas Club, and in fact inferior to those of United Club or Air Canada Maple Leaf despite them being around the same price or less expensive than Koru.
A few things:
(1) Having looked at the relative benefits of Qantas Club and Koru Iíd say that Koru is more generous - e.g. extra bag rather than extra 12kg when weight rather than piece allowance.
(2) Remember that United Club membership is needed for United *G to access United Club lounges in the US when travelling domestically as United *G doesnít provide access. While United Club membership does I believe allow some access overseas I donít know that Iíd consider Koru inferior overall to United Club membership. I donít know how you can say that United Club is around the same price or less than Koru when https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...hip-rates.html
shows that unless Platinum or higher annual membership is at least US$550 for an individual or US$1100 with partner.
(3) I agree it would be good to earn SP on APD tickets and would seem fair since marketed that APD are essentially $ when paying for flights (although also canít pay taxes).
(4) Obviously for those members like yourself living overseas who generally canít get a NZ$ Airpoints credit card to earn SP there is no advantage to NZ awarding SP on credit card spend but remember they make significant revenue from selling APD and SP and for many of us being able to earn some SP this way is useful. For those of us who are Elite we still have to pay a significant amount on NZ flights to stay Elite irrespective of credit card SP. I believe that qualification thresholds have been relatively increased (compared to spend) when the scheme was last significantly changed to take into account SP being earned on Credit cards. Like others have said we should be careful what we wish for however I guess if you live overseas and plan to continue to do so you are in a different situation to those of us living here with ability to earn some SP on credit cards. Iím sure NZ would have no problem dropping SP earn off credit cards and leaving thresholds the same - my personal response would probably be to redirect my annual six figure spend off my Westpac AP World card onto my Westpac Hotpoints World card as Hotpoints are in general more flexible than APD and then NZ would lose the money Westpac pays them for my APD and SP.
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Old Feb 17, 19, 10:47 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Originally Posted by drajknox View Post
(2) Remember that United Club membership is needed for United *G to access United Club lounges in the US when travelling domestically as United *G doesnít provide access. While United Club membership does I believe allow some access overseas I donít know that Iíd consider Koru inferior overall to United Club membership. I donít know how you can say that United Club is around the same price or less than Koru when https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...hip-rates.html
shows that unless Platinum or higher annual membership is at least US$550 for an individual or US$1100 with partner.

United Club and Maple Leaf memberships allow access to all *A lounges, same as if you held *G - including Air NZ Koru lounges. With that in mind, I'd say the relative benefits of UA Club are higher than that of NZ Koru - and when Koru weighs in at $629/yr plus $295 joining fee vs $550US/yr plus $50 joining fee, United wins hands down. Remember - those of us outside NZ do not include any joining fee waiver because we don't get any.

(3) I agree it would be good to earn SP on APD tickets and would seem fair since marketed that APD are essentially $ when paying for flights (although also canít pay taxes).
Yup. And not the silly "20% SP earn" like on Airpoints Flexipay either. If it's an any-seat award and 1APD = 1D then the SP earn should reflect that.

(4) Obviously for those members like yourself living overseas who generally canít get a NZ$ Airpoints credit card to earn SP there is no advantage to NZ awarding SP on credit card spend but remember they make significant revenue from selling APD and SP and for many of us being able to earn some SP this way is useful. For those of us who are Elite we still have to pay a significant amount on NZ flights to stay Elite irrespective of credit card SP. I believe that qualification thresholds have been relatively increased (compared to spend) when the scheme was last significantly changed to take into account SP being earned on Credit cards. Like others have said we should be careful what we wish for however I guess if you live overseas and plan to continue to do so you are in a different situation to those of us living here with ability to earn some SP on credit cards. Iím sure NZ would have no problem dropping SP earn off credit cards and leaving thresholds the same - my personal response would probably be to redirect my annual six figure spend off my Westpac AP World card onto my Westpac Hotpoints World card as Hotpoints are in general more flexible than APD and then NZ would lose the money Westpac pays them for my APD and SP.
If SP earn from credit cards is factored into requal thresholds, then requal thresholds should be restored to their original values and SP earn on credit cards dropped. The number of elites is way overkill, and the program really needs to be realigned to reward flying, not buying groceries. Handing out points/APD like candy is fine - but making Gold as simple as your annual groceries and 4 trips to Wellington is unfair on those who can't get status from credit cards, and those who earn by flying but cannot take advantage of their benefits because of the number of "status pax" who don't fly. Sorry if that means you personally will be affected, but if you aren't still Elite after losing your credit card SP earn then you shouldn't have been Elite in the first place.
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Old Feb 17, 19, 11:31 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by kyanar View Post
United Club and Maple Leaf memberships allow access to all *A lounges, same as if you held *G - including Air NZ Koru lounges. With that in mind, I'd say the relative benefits of UA Club are higher than that of NZ Koru - and when Koru weighs in at $629/yr plus $295 joining fee vs $550US/yr plus $50 joining fee, United wins hands down. Remember - those of us outside NZ do not include any joining fee waiver because we don't get any.


Yup. And not the silly "20% SP earn" like on Airpoints Flexipay either. If it's an any-seat award and 1APD = 1D then the SP earn should reflect that.


If SP earn from credit cards is factored into requal thresholds, then requal thresholds should be restored to their original values and SP earn on credit cards dropped. The number of elites is way overkill, and the program really needs to be realigned to reward flying, not buying groceries. Handing out points/APD like candy is fine - but making Gold as simple as your annual groceries and 4 trips to Wellington is unfair on those who can't get status from credit cards, and those who earn by flying but cannot take advantage of their benefits because of the number of "status pax" who don't fly. Sorry if that means you personally will be affected, but if you aren't still Elite after losing your credit card SP earn then you shouldn't have been Elite in the first place.
Well in my case I probably would still requalify this year for Elite without credit card spend but when I comment on these sort of matters I tend to look bigger picture than just considering my own situation and I disagree with much of the above.

Firstly the NZ program is designed mainly for people living in NZ and while that may seem unfair part of the reason NZ gets so much loyalty is that we are still to some extent a small market, there is no realistic domestic alternative in many cases, and if you want loyalty benefits on domestic you tend to commit to NZ internationally.

Just because you or someone else (the minority of AP members) may not be able to earn SP on credit cards doesnít mean to say NZ would want to or should forego the revenue they receive from selling them.

The program puts in place significant hurdles to requalify at Gold and Elite levels with 50% of SP having to be earned FLYING at Gold and 60% (810) on NZ or a few qualifying partner flights for Elite which requires SIGNIFICANT FLYING.
I donít know how people can get Gold or Elite status as the ďnon flying Status paxĒ you refer to - perhaps you can enlighten us all.

Unless youíre flying from London I doubt 4 trips to Wellington would get you enough SP to be *G with NZ - certainly if flying from even Aus youíd have to be making pretty poor flight choices or paying quite expensive fares to earn the 405/810 SP need to requalify Gold. I was looking at some AKL-MEL-AKL flights today in Y (which I would upgrade) and the return fare for around $450 was showing 18 SP total - would need to do about 23 of those trips to requalify at Gold and fly almost every week to get the 810 SP which must be flying on NZ to requalify Elite independent of credit card SP.

I respectfully suggest that you read some of the comments made by others who posted about the yearly summary they received in December - there are many AP members flying in excess of 35 flights per year who donít even qualify Gold and without long haul Business many struggle - itís not the number of flights that you allude to in many cases - itís about whether they can (or in many cases their employer can so do they really deserve the personal benefit) afford LongHaul Business as without that it is in many cases very difficult to get over the Elite line - yet relatively FEW long haul J flights can in some cases do it WITHOUT MUCH FLYING. And if you justify that by saying NZ earns a lot of profit when you pay for a few long haul J flights you justify the issuance of SP for credit card spend when that is profitable for NZ. I wouldnít be so egotistical or narcissistic to think for a minute that NZ cares how many times I physically fly on their planes - they quite rightly care about Profit, maximising return for shareholders and hopefully also providing good service and having a good reputation to maximise patronage to have the ability to be profitable.
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Last edited by drajknox; Feb 18, 19 at 12:08 am
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