When/Why is Business cheaper than Premium Economy
Apr 13, 2019, 5:03 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: AKL
Programs: NZ Silver
Posts: 1,817
I don't see how you can compare the two subsidies. They share nothing in common.
RAR is a fully public subsidy that has undergone multiple reviews since it started in 2009. Whether the economic benefits stand up and deliver are still open to debate, but at least everything is out in the open.
Wellington ratepayers fund a deal done in secret with major details (such as exactly how much per year SQ get) not available and OIA requests to reveal it being rejected. To add to that the original purpose of the subsidy was to start WLG-CBR-SIN flights, but because both WLG-CBR and CBR-SIN routes didn't work SIN changed the routing of SIN-CBR so it was via SYD inbound, and then changed WLG routing via MEL but still kept the subsidy despite this route now having one of the highest load factors across the entire SQ network (sits around 92%)
Imagine if Air NZ decided to scrap RAR-SYD and RAR-LAX and instead fly everybody via AKL but still keep the subsidy. There would be outrage.
RAR is a fully public subsidy that has undergone multiple reviews since it started in 2009. Whether the economic benefits stand up and deliver are still open to debate, but at least everything is out in the open.
Wellington ratepayers fund a deal done in secret with major details (such as exactly how much per year SQ get) not available and OIA requests to reveal it being rejected. To add to that the original purpose of the subsidy was to start WLG-CBR-SIN flights, but because both WLG-CBR and CBR-SIN routes didn't work SIN changed the routing of SIN-CBR so it was via SYD inbound, and then changed WLG routing via MEL but still kept the subsidy despite this route now having one of the highest load factors across the entire SQ network (sits around 92%)
Imagine if Air NZ decided to scrap RAR-SYD and RAR-LAX and instead fly everybody via AKL but still keep the subsidy. There would be outrage.
I'd like to know how they avoided having to answer OIA requests?
Apr 13, 2019, 5:11 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,112
There have been a lot of OIA requests for information, however the whole deal seems to have been done with very little paperwork. Both the Taxpayers Union and Stuff spent a lot of time asking questions, but not getting answers.
Some of the best information is in this OIA request, which like others has a lot of the significant details redacted. https://fyi.org.nz/request/3590-info...incoming-12752
SQ did the dirty on the whole deal by taking the subsidy, not delivering the promised aircraft or business class offering they pledged, and then changing the route. While I'd happily fly SQ elsewhere I have fundamental issues with the whole deal and would certainly never support SQ on the MEL route.
Some of the best information is in this OIA request, which like others has a lot of the significant details redacted. https://fyi.org.nz/request/3590-info...incoming-12752
SQ did the dirty on the whole deal by taking the subsidy, not delivering the promised aircraft or business class offering they pledged, and then changing the route. While I'd happily fly SQ elsewhere I have fundamental issues with the whole deal and would certainly never support SQ on the MEL route.
Apr 13, 2019, 7:41 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: NZ Silver A3 Gold Qantas Gold Accor Platinum
Posts: 223
Is a great option if in the regions in my case HLZ. Booked to leave HLZ 11.00 am transit WLG in MEL by 2.30 pm and reverse leave MEL 0630 am back HLZ 2.55 pm.No drive to and from the madhouse of Auckland, no parking fees and of course no need to leave for the airport (Auckland) 5 hours before the flight, HLZ only 10/15 mins away.so whats not to like.
Apr 14, 2019, 1:32 am
#19
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: NZ EP
Posts: 184
Is a great option if in the regions in my case HLZ. Booked to leave HLZ 11.00 am transit WLG in MEL by 2.30 pm and reverse leave MEL 0630 am back HLZ 2.55 pm.No drive to and from the madhouse of Auckland, no parking fees and of course no need to leave for the airport (Auckland) 5 hours before the flight, HLZ only 10/15 mins away.so whats not to like.
Totally off thread, but what are Singapore flying out of WLG? Is it 772 a la OKI? Similar business product to NZ?
Apr 14, 2019, 1:58 am
#20
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,112
SQ fly their regional 777s that are all 2002 era and have never seen a refit - angled recliner business and original 2002 era 3-3-3 economy that's all non slimline so is actually incredibly comfy in economy. IFE is original as well.
SQ originally promised the A330 with full lie flat, but despite being slammed for the 777 business offering they have so far given no indications as to what they'll move to when they do retire the last of these regionals which I believe is scheduled for around 2022. The 787-10 is their new regional aircraft so it could be this.
Apr 14, 2019, 1:08 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: SQ TPPS (21),QF G, NZ E, IHG D Amb, Marriott Gold, HH Gold, Shangri-La Jade, Accor Plat, Hertz P
Posts: 397
There have been a lot of OIA requests for information, however the whole deal seems to have been done with very little paperwork. Both the Taxpayers Union and Stuff spent a lot of time asking questions, but not getting answers.
Some of the best information is in this OIA request, which like others has a lot of the significant details redacted. https://fyi.org.nz/request/3590-info...incoming-12752
SQ did the dirty on the whole deal by taking the subsidy, not delivering the promised aircraft or business class offering they pledged, and then changing the route. While I'd happily fly SQ elsewhere I have fundamental issues with the whole deal and would certainly never support SQ on the MEL route.
Some of the best information is in this OIA request, which like others has a lot of the significant details redacted. https://fyi.org.nz/request/3590-info...incoming-12752
SQ did the dirty on the whole deal by taking the subsidy, not delivering the promised aircraft or business class offering they pledged, and then changing the route. While I'd happily fly SQ elsewhere I have fundamental issues with the whole deal and would certainly never support SQ on the MEL route.
Apr 14, 2019, 2:36 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,112
A petrol boycott would be exceptionally effective if people actually did it properly. Since the big four all share infrastructure you'd totally mess up the fuel allocations and swaps scheme if it was sustained for a few weeks!
Apr 15, 2019, 4:04 am
#23
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: SQ TPPS (21),QF G, NZ E, IHG D Amb, Marriott Gold, HH Gold, Shangri-La Jade, Accor Plat, Hertz P
Posts: 397
OK, they’ve dealt with natural disasters, refinery shutdowns, fuel shortages, fuel contaminations etc but you think they couldn’t deal with that?
Apr 15, 2019, 5:27 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,645
They don't have insurance for a bunch of people not using them. Petrol is allocated to one company will need to sold to another, so messes up oil futures and currency hedging which reach company has in place. Petrol might start going off if do it for long enough.
Apr 15, 2019, 3:07 pm
#25
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: SQ TPPS (21),QF G, NZ E, IHG D Amb, Marriott Gold, HH Gold, Shangri-La Jade, Accor Plat, Hertz P
Posts: 397
They will have insurance for all those which helps the cash flow.
No, they self insure up to about US$50 million
And those don't affect the ratio of sales between companies.
They can and do
They don't have insurance for a bunch of people not using them
True. Who would? It’s just normal business. People don’t use them every day
Petrol is allocated to one company will need to sold to another, so messes up oil futures and currency hedging which reach company has in place
Petrol is not “allocated” except in extreme circumstances (a boycott is not one). They all have their own supply chains
Petrol might start going off if do it for long enough
If you don’t fill up you will run out or the fuel will deteriorate in your tank. Who’s likely to be worse off?
No, they self insure up to about US$50 million
And those don't affect the ratio of sales between companies.
They can and do
They don't have insurance for a bunch of people not using them
True. Who would? It’s just normal business. People don’t use them every day
Petrol is allocated to one company will need to sold to another, so messes up oil futures and currency hedging which reach company has in place
Petrol is not “allocated” except in extreme circumstances (a boycott is not one). They all have their own supply chains
Petrol might start going off if do it for long enough
If you don’t fill up you will run out or the fuel will deteriorate in your tank. Who’s likely to be worse off?