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-   -   Wondering why SQ Flights ex WLG are not included as NZ Codeshare? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points/1938071-wondering-why-sq-flights-ex-wlg-not-included-nz-codeshare.html)

ottiehund Oct 30, 18 1:22 am

Wondering why SQ Flights ex WLG are not included as NZ Codeshare?
 
Flying SQ occasionally I have been wondering for a while why the WLG-MEL-WLG service does not show as an option on the NZ booking engine - not even if using multi stop option.

I find this a bit puzzling given SQ does appear as a code share option when booking many other destinations via Air NZ (almost anywhere in Europe for example).

Also, given the NZ domestic flight connections (regional) that SQ offer when booking their Wellington to Melbourne service direct with them, often at very good prices, it seems there must clearly be some cooperation between the airlines.

I am guessing the reason there isn't a full SQ/NZ code share offered on the Tasman route will be something to do with it being 'Trans Tasman' and no doubt some of the conditions around the respective airline licenses associated with that?

sbiddle Oct 30, 18 2:42 am

NZ only codeshare on the WLG-SIN service.

Reasons are long and complex (and political and do involve their alliance). With the move from CBR to MEL there was even less of a reason to need it.

Ellice Oct 30, 18 11:29 am

Also wondering how long SQ arrangement with Wellington city council is going on for? There are some ridiculously cheap fares out of Wellington to Melbourne on SQ at times.

sbiddle Oct 30, 18 12:17 pm


Originally Posted by Ellice (Post 30373463)
Also wondering how long SQ arrangement with Wellington city council is going on for? There are some ridiculously cheap fares out of Wellington to Melbourne on SQ at times.


The agreement was for a decade.

I guess when every passenger on the flight ex WLG has a subsidy then you can afford to sell cheaper airfares. The subsidy really is the biggest scam of all time.

It's impossible for anybody to know the details of the subsidy since there is no paperwork. One can only conclude however that the cost of the subsidy has increased significantly since it was (apparently once again since no documents exist) a per passenger fee so the flights to MEL mean a greater subsidy since they have more pax on them. No airline is going to ignore upwards of a $1 million per year handout..

Ellice Oct 30, 18 4:41 pm

So when's it going to end? I'm not sure when the decade started for the agreement. Certainly gives a few more options to get out of Wellington on long haul.

henrus Oct 31, 18 12:41 am

The subsidy is apparently a fixed $800,000 per year payment to SIA for 10 years (others say it's $9 per passenger but I think that's estimated). This started in September 2016 so one would assume it would last until September 2026.

If NZ did sign a codeshare deal (from WLG-MEL) then it would need approval from the NZ government (if only selling tickets from NZ) or both the AU and NZ govs (if selling tickets in both countries).

Something tells me that Virgin and potentially even Qantas would object to such deal proceeding and this could create headaches for NZ for the small number of benefits it creates (points, status etc are already covered by *A).

Virgin has a codeshare deal with SQ for all SQ/MI flights originating from Australia and this covers the SQ flight between MEL-WLG allowing them to sell tickets originting in Australia but not the other way around.

Thai-Kiwi Oct 31, 18 12:55 am

deleted

brenrox Oct 31, 18 1:31 am


Originally Posted by henrus (Post 30375842)
The subsidy is apparently a fixed $800,000 per year payment to SIA for 10 years (others say it's $9 per passenger but I think that's estimated). This started in September 2016 so one would assume it would last until September 2026.

If NZ did sign a codeshare deal (from WLG-MEL) then it would need approval from the NZ government (if only selling tickets from NZ) or both the AU and NZ govs (if selling tickets in both countries).

Something tells me that Virgin and potentially even Qantas would object to such deal proceeding and this could create headaches for NZ for the small number of benefits it creates (points, status etc are already covered by *A).

Virgin has a codeshare deal with SQ for all SQ/MI flights originating from Australia and this covers the SQ flight between MEL-WLG allowing them to sell tickets originting in Australia but not the other way around.

So WLG Council are paying an 800k p.a subsidy to SQ?

sbiddle Oct 31, 18 2:17 am


Originally Posted by brenrox (Post 30375925)
So WLG Council are paying an 800k p.a subsidy to SQ?

Potentially a lot more now it's via MEL. The deal was never made public and clouded in secrecy so nobody knows the actual figure.

brenrox Oct 31, 18 2:32 am


Originally Posted by sbiddle (Post 30376038)
Potentially a lot more now it's via MEL. The deal was never made public and clouded in secrecy so nobody knows the actual figure.

Wow, that's absurd. There are already two airlines flying there...

wayoutwest Oct 31, 18 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by brenrox (Post 30375925)
So WLG Council are paying an 800k p.a subsidy to SQ?

Thats nothing the Cook Islands pay Air NZ $12m a year for flights to from Sydney and LA.

sbiddle Oct 31, 18 12:30 pm


Originally Posted by wayoutwest (Post 30377809)


Thats nothing the Cook Islands pay Air NZ $12m a year for flights to from Sydney and LA.

Do you have a source for that? That's certainly higher than any public figure I can find - and the subsidies on both SYD-RAR and RAR to LAX are heavily analysed. The subsidy payments are a maximum amount payable, they are not a guaranteed payment.

Wellington City Council agreed to pay SQ a year fee for 10 years with no public consultation, no paper trail and no public disclosure. Nobody can say exactly what the details are because these simply are not known.

nzkarit Oct 31, 18 1:24 pm

Aussie Govt also pays NZ to fly to Norfolk and VA to Xmas islands etc. Plus a lot of contracted routes to the middle of no where in Queensland and NT. Though there is proper bidding process that is open each number of years.

The Wellington SQ thing was not a public bidding process, where there was a problem that was trying to be addressed and it wasn't open on GETS for all the airlines to bid on and doesn't have any oversight.

brenrox Oct 31, 18 3:05 pm


Originally Posted by wayoutwest (Post 30377809)


Thats nothing the Cook Islands pay Air NZ $12m a year for flights to from Sydney and LA.

I can see the rationale for this example (although that figure is high if true) and the Norfolk Island one as there are no other airlines serving those routes (as far as I am aware). With WLG-MEL you have both NZ and QF.

Ellice Oct 31, 18 3:10 pm


Originally Posted by henrus (Post 30375842)
The subsidy is apparently a fixed $800,000 per year payment to SIA for 10 years (others say it's $9 per passenger but I think that's estimated). This started in September 2016 so one would assume it would last until September 2026.

If NZ did sign a codeshare deal (from WLG-MEL) then it would need approval from the NZ government (if only selling tickets from NZ) or both the AU and NZ govs (if selling tickets in both countries).

Something tells me that Virgin and potentially even Qantas would object to such deal proceeding and this could create headaches for NZ for the small number of benefits it creates (points, status etc are already covered by *A).

Virgin has a codeshare deal with SQ for all SQ/MI flights originating from Australia and this covers the SQ flight between MEL-WLG allowing them to sell tickets originting in Australia but not the other way around.

Thanks for that info and end date. Still a wee way off finishing if it's 2026. Interesting the arrangement. I'm not complaining! I can see why it was done by WCC, to try and open Welly up to new markets since the runway extension may or may not happen and give Wellingtonians options other than Air NZ and having to fly via AKL which is a PITA sometimes. Has worked for us. I always check SQ site now as there have been some very good deals long haul deals out of Wellington especially during the quiet months, on SQ.


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