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Wondering why SQ Flights ex WLG are not included as NZ Codeshare?

Wondering why SQ Flights ex WLG are not included as NZ Codeshare?

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Old Oct 31, 18, 3:50 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by brenrox View Post


I can see the rationale for this example (although that figure is high if true) and the Norfolk Island one as there are no other airlines serving those routes (as far as I am aware). With WLG-MEL you have both NZ and QF.
When the subsidy was put in place, the route was WLG-CBR. There are no airlines flying that route. It was basically a convenience for politicians.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 4:13 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by Ellice View Post
Thanks for that info and end date. Still a wee way off finishing if it's 2026. Interesting the arrangement. I'm not complaining! I can see why it was done by WCC, to try and open Welly up to new markets since the runway extension may or may not happen and give Wellingtonians options other than Air NZ and having to fly via AKL which is a PITA sometimes. Has worked for us. I always check SQ site now as there have been some very good deals long haul deals out of Wellington especially during the quiet months, on SQ.
I can't disagree more with the subsidy - mostly because of the way it was hidden from taxpayers.

I don't have an issue with subsidies but they need to follow proper process. Secret deals where money is handed over with no paper trail and no measurable ROI are not how business should be done.

I also don't think you can argue the subsidy "has worked for us". SQ begged both WLG and CBR for subsidies (both are paying them) for the route, and SQ have basically done the dirty on both cities by changing the original schedule and flights at both CBR and WLG and have continued to deliver an inferior hard product despite insisting that aircraft upgrades would occur.

I'd quite happily give anybody else my money over SQ.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:27 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
I can't disagree more with the subsidy - mostly because of the way it was hidden from taxpayers.

I don't have an issue with subsidies but they need to follow proper process. Secret deals where money is handed over with no paper trail and no measurable ROI are not how business should be done.

I also don't think you can argue the subsidy "has worked for us". SQ begged both WLG and CBR for subsidies (both are paying them) for the route, and SQ have basically done the dirty on both cities by changing the original schedule and flights at both CBR and WLG and have continued to deliver an inferior hard product despite insisting that aircraft upgrades would occur.

I'd quite happily give anybody else my money over SQ.
Iím all for any extra competition as consumer. (this is Flyertalk. Isnít It??).
Iím not sure what the processes were. I guess there are commercial sensitivities around deals being disclosed. I hardly think WCC would be offering subsidies to QF and NZ who were already operating out of Wellington. As for ROI on the subsidy I guess you could look at it in terms of ROI for ĎWellington INCí and what indirect economic benefits there are from more cheap flights to Wellington and a second option for Asian travellers to get there.

Anyone who didnt like the process could actively give there business to Air NZ out of Wellington. Also if the Wellington ratepayers didnít like it they could vote with their feet at the next local body elections.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:59 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Ellice View Post


I’m all for any extra competition as consumer. (this is Flyertalk. Isn’t It??).
I’m not sure what the processes were. I guess there are commercial sensitivities around deals being disclosed. I hardly think WCC would be offering subsidies to QF and NZ who were already operating out of Wellington. As for ROI on the subsidy I guess you could look at it in terms of ROI for ‘Wellington INC’ and what indirect economic benefits there are from more cheap flights to Wellington and a second option for Asian travellers to get there.

Anyone who didnt like the process could actively give there business to Air NZ out of Wellington. Also if the Wellington ratepayers didn’t like it they could vote with their feet at the next local body elections.

Vote with feet? Its locked in for 10 years which is three terms and a year.

But when say Aussie does Norfolk, Xmas and the outback they are very transparent with the process. Think the actual numbers are commercially sensitive. But the rest is open and clear and is an open bid process. AFIAK SQ was the only airline involved and NZ, VA and QF were not allowed to bid for the opportunity.

There is no public business case and there is no public evaluation criteria
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Old Nov 4, 18, 4:53 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by wayoutwest View Post
Thats nothing the Cook Islands pay Air NZ $12m a year for flights to from Sydney and LA.
It was $12.1 million for the two routes (SYD-RAR and RAR-LAX) in 2013 so I wouldn't be surprised if it's more now.

Given both of those flights are once weekly services

The Cook Islands is spending ~$74,000 per LAX flight and ~$42,500 per SYD flight.

The Sydney flights had on average 270 people per flight (during August 2018) thats almost a $150 per person subsidy and much much more than the reported $9 per person subsidy that SQ gets for their WLG flights.

Originally Posted by nzkarit View Post
Aussie Govt also pays NZ to fly to Norfolk and VA to Xmas islands etc. Plus a lot of contracted routes to the middle of no where in Queensland and NT. Though there is proper bidding process that is open each number of years.
Some routes are just regulated (one one operate can service) and others get subsidies.

The QLD ones are rumoured to be around 9-10 million per year spread across 5 routes (with some routes getting more than others).
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