New 773 refit seems dissapointing
#16
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 21
AKL-LAX is a *lot* further than SYD to LHR. Reastically it's inevitable that it will be possible within 10 years or so once we see the next generation of aircraft. The simple reality is however that such long flights don't stack up.
I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.
When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.
When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
#18
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 181
With that being said, I'll be very intrigued to see what the next product is which can continue to satisfy the sleep comfort with space/privacy/layout, etc. Some of the new products are great, but they all tend to have to sacrifice on something.
#19
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,419
Presumably this should be AKL-LHR is a lot further than SYD-LHR? Agree with the rest of the post. Given the various ultralonghaul flights that have failed to be successful to date, and AKL-LHR not supporting connecting flights on Air NZ (unlike EK's AKL-DXB and QR's AKL-DOH), I can't see AKL-LHR nonstop happening any time soon even if it becomes theoretically possible.
#20
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,055
Presumably this should be AKL-LHR is a lot further than SYD-LHR? Agree with the rest of the post. Given the various ultralonghaul flights that have failed to be successful to date, and AKL-LHR not supporting connecting flights on Air NZ (unlike EK's AKL-DXB and QR's AKL-DOH), I can't see AKL-LHR nonstop happening any time soon even if it becomes theoretically possible.
AKL-LHR would just be a dud.. At the end of the day NZ carry ~200 pax per day from NZ to the UK. That's a mere fraction of the number that head via Asia on NZ and partner services along with with every other airline who offers it.
Selling non stop flights for a 20% - 30% premium on their current pricing via LAX (which is probably a realistic figure for such a route based on QF pricing) would kill it right from the start.
#21
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: NZ Gold Elite, AS, AC, QF
Posts: 746
I wouldn't underestimate some travellers--particularly front end ones--having a lot of antipathy to the Dubai hub. For all sorts of reasons: not a relaxing climate for a stopover, not exactly a fount of democracy, the imbalance of flight times.
For travellers who don't want to fly Emirates, being on a kangaroo that only touches down in Oz and Europe will have a lot of appeal.
For travellers who don't want to fly Emirates, being on a kangaroo that only touches down in Oz and Europe will have a lot of appeal.
AKL-LAX is a *lot* further than SYD to LHR. Reastically it's inevitable that it will be possible within 10 years or so once we see the next generation of aircraft. The simple reality is however that such long flights don't stack up.
I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.
When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.
When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
#22
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NZ
Programs: NZ Gold, BA Gold, QF Silver, IHG Platinum Elite Ambassador, Accor Diamond
Posts: 1,047
I'm happy with NZ in BP, it is good enough. I am guessing NZ will get a bit of negative feedback from users of the LHR-LAX service when the Spaceseats go, because it will be much like BA/VS hard product (but much better soft product). Bear in mind that the LHR service is as much (if not moreso) about catering for that market than trips to NZ.
There are a host of factors that mitigate against AKL-LHR non-stop. For a daily service (which is what is expected) three aircraft are needed, and it is hard to see that the yields for that trip would be better than using them on shorter trips (e.g. NZ-USA). Even if there could be a premium for passengers in C cabins (which I am sure is true), the bulk of travellers AKL-LHR are leisure passengers in Y and some in PE, who are all price sensitive. PE would need to be priced akin to 1/2 stop C on other carriers, which is much more attractive in any case.
Furthermore, the cost of such a service is substantial, given the need for a larger crew and fuel would be burned to carry fuel for a fair part of the trip.
QF's experiment is largely going to survive based on it culling a lot of Y capacity from MEL-LHR by replacing an A380 via DXB with a 789 via PER. It is betting that it can attract full C and PE cabins, supported by both MEL and PER (and feeders from ADL and CBR than find SYD less attractive to transfer). There is enough point to point to London to justify it there, but there really isn't in NZ.
There are a host of factors that mitigate against AKL-LHR non-stop. For a daily service (which is what is expected) three aircraft are needed, and it is hard to see that the yields for that trip would be better than using them on shorter trips (e.g. NZ-USA). Even if there could be a premium for passengers in C cabins (which I am sure is true), the bulk of travellers AKL-LHR are leisure passengers in Y and some in PE, who are all price sensitive. PE would need to be priced akin to 1/2 stop C on other carriers, which is much more attractive in any case.
Furthermore, the cost of such a service is substantial, given the need for a larger crew and fuel would be burned to carry fuel for a fair part of the trip.
QF's experiment is largely going to survive based on it culling a lot of Y capacity from MEL-LHR by replacing an A380 via DXB with a 789 via PER. It is betting that it can attract full C and PE cabins, supported by both MEL and PER (and feeders from ADL and CBR than find SYD less attractive to transfer). There is enough point to point to London to justify it there, but there really isn't in NZ.
#23
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,055
It's certainly going to be interesting to see if PE loadings on LAX-LHR change at all with the removal of the Spaceseat. It does remove a key difference Air NZ had over every other airline, and it's something they've heavily pushed in both the US and UK markets.
I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
#24
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Zealand
Programs: Air NZ *E
Posts: 140
It's certainly going to be interesting to see if PE loadings on LAX-LHR change at all with the removal of the Spaceseat. It does remove a key difference Air NZ had over every other airline, and it's something they've heavily pushed in both the US and UK markets.
I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
#25
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,618
+1. Last minute equipment swaps are now aplenty over to the new config, and therefore 'new' PE. Funny how [looking at seat maps] everybody avoids those middle two seats in the middle row of four - you would interpret from this that sitting in-between 2-3 others in 'premium economy' does not feel 'premium' to most, including me....... Still, there has been 'fantastic' feedback on the new config
#27
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Zealand
Programs: Air NZ *E
Posts: 140
My ten cents so far.....more rushed, less feeling of personal service [compared to Spaceseats config service], especially when you are piggy in the middle of the row of four. Can't imagine that changing anytime soon....
#28
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SEA
Programs: NZ Elite (*G)
Posts: 655
I'm scheduled to fly LHR-LAX in PE on September 2. They still show the SpaceSeat configuration. I'm nervous about my seat assignment if the expected change to the new seating arrangement does occur beginning September 1. Needless to say I am keeping an eye on the seat configuration (still shows SpaceSeat).
#29
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,618
I'm scheduled to fly LHR-LAX in PE on September 2. They still show the SpaceSeat configuration. I'm nervous about my seat assignment if the expected change to the new seating arrangement does occur beginning September 1. Needless to say I am keeping an eye on the seat configuration (still shows SpaceSeat).