New 773 refit seems dissapointing

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Old Jun 18, 17, 7:15 pm
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Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
AKL-LAX is a *lot* further than SYD to LHR. Reastically it's inevitable that it will be possible within 10 years or so once we see the next generation of aircraft. The simple reality is however that such long flights don't stack up.

I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.

When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
The amount of Brits living in Perth is the reason PER - LHR will be successful maybe not all year round but they will be fully booked around the holidays.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 12:30 am
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I still find the current 777 product in BP amazing to sleep in, and that's the main thing for me.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:12 am
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Originally Posted by Rebound View Post
I still find the current 777 product in BP amazing to sleep in, and that's the main thing for me.
Same here...especially with the vast majority of North/South America flights being overnight which is what I use Air NZ for long haul.

With that being said, I'll be very intrigued to see what the next product is which can continue to satisfy the sleep comfort with space/privacy/layout, etc. Some of the new products are great, but they all tend to have to sacrifice on something.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:39 am
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Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
AKL-LAX is a *lot* further than SYD to LHR.
Presumably this should be AKL-LHR is a lot further than SYD-LHR? Agree with the rest of the post. Given the various ultralonghaul flights that have failed to be successful to date, and AKL-LHR not supporting connecting flights on Air NZ (unlike EK's AKL-DXB and QR's AKL-DOH), I can't see AKL-LHR nonstop happening any time soon even if it becomes theoretically possible.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:50 am
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer View Post
Presumably this should be AKL-LHR is a lot further than SYD-LHR? Agree with the rest of the post. Given the various ultralonghaul flights that have failed to be successful to date, and AKL-LHR not supporting connecting flights on Air NZ (unlike EK's AKL-DXB and QR's AKL-DOH), I can't see AKL-LHR nonstop happening any time soon even if it becomes theoretically possible.
Oops yes meant AKL-LHR

AKL-LHR would just be a dud.. At the end of the day NZ carry ~200 pax per day from NZ to the UK. That's a mere fraction of the number that head via Asia on NZ and partner services along with with every other airline who offers it.

Selling non stop flights for a 20% - 30% premium on their current pricing via LAX (which is probably a realistic figure for such a route based on QF pricing) would kill it right from the start.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 2:43 am
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I wouldn't underestimate some travellers--particularly front end ones--having a lot of antipathy to the Dubai hub. For all sorts of reasons: not a relaxing climate for a stopover, not exactly a fount of democracy, the imbalance of flight times.

For travellers who don't want to fly Emirates, being on a kangaroo that only touches down in Oz and Europe will have a lot of appeal.

Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
AKL-LAX is a *lot* further than SYD to LHR. Reastically it's inevitable that it will be possible within 10 years or so once we see the next generation of aircraft. The simple reality is however that such long flights don't stack up.

I don't see PER-LHR being a roaring success and if and when SYD-LHR becomes possible the whole investment in PER would be redundant which won't make the locals happy. The question has been raised by some questioning whether the current pricing from PER to LHR is actually that profitable.

When you start getting to a 20hr flight you've got low pax numbers, high fuel costs and the real world reality that you're burning lots of fuel for the first few hours just to push a very heavy plane along.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 7:15 am
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I'm happy with NZ in BP, it is good enough. I am guessing NZ will get a bit of negative feedback from users of the LHR-LAX service when the Spaceseats go, because it will be much like BA/VS hard product (but much better soft product). Bear in mind that the LHR service is as much (if not moreso) about catering for that market than trips to NZ.

There are a host of factors that mitigate against AKL-LHR non-stop. For a daily service (which is what is expected) three aircraft are needed, and it is hard to see that the yields for that trip would be better than using them on shorter trips (e.g. NZ-USA). Even if there could be a premium for passengers in C cabins (which I am sure is true), the bulk of travellers AKL-LHR are leisure passengers in Y and some in PE, who are all price sensitive. PE would need to be priced akin to 1/2 stop C on other carriers, which is much more attractive in any case.

Furthermore, the cost of such a service is substantial, given the need for a larger crew and fuel would be burned to carry fuel for a fair part of the trip.

QF's experiment is largely going to survive based on it culling a lot of Y capacity from MEL-LHR by replacing an A380 via DXB with a 789 via PER. It is betting that it can attract full C and PE cabins, supported by both MEL and PER (and feeders from ADL and CBR than find SYD less attractive to transfer). There is enough point to point to London to justify it there, but there really isn't in NZ.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:33 pm
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It's certainly going to be interesting to see if PE loadings on LAX-LHR change at all with the removal of the Spaceseat. It does remove a key difference Air NZ had over every other airline, and it's something they've heavily pushed in both the US and UK markets.

I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 5:01 pm
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Originally Posted by sbiddle View Post
It's certainly going to be interesting to see if PE loadings on LAX-LHR change at all with the removal of the Spaceseat. It does remove a key difference Air NZ had over every other airline, and it's something they've heavily pushed in both the US and UK markets.

I've got my last Spacesat flight in 2 1/2 weeks coming back from the UK. BP over and PE back. I'm a massive Spaceseat fan so will really miss it for future travel.
+1. Last minute equipment swaps are now aplenty over to the new config, and therefore 'new' PE. Funny how [looking at seat maps] everybody avoids those middle two seats in the middle row of four - you would interpret from this that sitting in-between 2-3 others in 'premium economy' does not feel 'premium' to most, including me....... Still, there has been 'fantastic' feedback on the new config
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Old Jun 19, 17, 5:38 pm
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Originally Posted by JayKiwi View Post
+1. Last minute equipment swaps are now aplenty over to the new config, and therefore 'new' PE. Funny how [looking at seat maps] everybody avoids those middle two seats in the middle row of four - you would interpret from this that sitting in-between 2-3 others in 'premium economy' does not feel 'premium' to most, including me....... Still, there has been 'fantastic' feedback on the new config
In someways Skycouch appeals in that regard. Don't have to climb over people and people don't have to climb over you. Sure other downsides.....
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Old Jun 19, 17, 6:24 pm
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Hows the service in PE now with an extra 10 seats? has the crew allocation to PE change? It has been pretty rushed in the past with 44 passengers in an full cabin.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 6:28 pm
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Originally Posted by cavemanzk View Post
Hows the service in PE now with an extra 10 seats? has the crew allocation to PE change? It has been pretty rushed in the past with 44 passengers in an full cabin.
My ten cents so far.....more rushed, less feeling of personal service [compared to Spaceseats config service], especially when you are piggy in the middle of the row of four. Can't imagine that changing anytime soon....
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Old Jun 19, 17, 7:37 pm
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I'm scheduled to fly LHR-LAX in PE on September 2. They still show the SpaceSeat configuration. I'm nervous about my seat assignment if the expected change to the new seating arrangement does occur beginning September 1. Needless to say I am keeping an eye on the seat configuration (still shows SpaceSeat).
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Old Jun 19, 17, 9:09 pm
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Originally Posted by SeaProf View Post
I'm scheduled to fly LHR-LAX in PE on September 2. They still show the SpaceSeat configuration. I'm nervous about my seat assignment if the expected change to the new seating arrangement does occur beginning September 1. Needless to say I am keeping an eye on the seat configuration (still shows SpaceSeat).
When does the NZ1 plane that is flying on the 2nd leave Akl? If left Akl on 31 would still be Space Seat. I assume the first official 1st non space seat NZ2 will leave AKL on September 1. And they won't pre stage 773 at LAX and LHR to do a one day cut over.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 9:44 pm
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There will be flights already with refitted flights due to operational needs. For example NZ2 is currently operated by ZK-OKM with is refitted.
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