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kiwibigdave Dec 31, 10 7:34 pm

777-300 ER mini-reviews
 
Borrowing from Ann Tyrol's Premium Economy mini-reviews thread, here's one for 777-300 ER flights commencing 10 Jan 2011.


Originally Posted by Ann Tyrol (Post 6542904)
... a thread for people to put their own mini-review of what they thought of the ... service.

Route
Day/Night flight
Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle)
Seat comfort (width ok?)
Legroom
Ease of getting in and out
Food
Drink
FA attentiveness
AVOD
Would you do it again?
Other thoughts?

kiwibigdave Jan 13, 11 3:20 am

Route AKL-MEL
Day/Night flight Day (AM)
Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) Y+, JK seats
Seat comfort (width ok?) The seat was impressive.

Seat pros? Significantly better than anything in Y. The 'bulkhead' / frame of the seat will give pax who can't normally sleep sitting straight and upright a few more options to contort themselves for comfort. If you're travelling solo the AB and JK seats will give a whole extra degree of privacy. The 2+2+2 configuration.

Seat cons? No one big thing, but I just have to wonder about numerous little things, for no other reason than I can. (But let me be clear; this Y+ seat will be a fabulous bonus as a Space+ equivalent when flying TT.) However, just a few niggles, for things I think NZ had an opportunity to get right. My comparison point is Y+ on a 747 or 777-200. And I stress, these are just wee niggles.
  1. There is nowhere to rest a cup or store a water bottle without opening the tray table. Even in Y on other aircraft you can store a water bottle in the safety card / magazine pouch. And certainly this whole Y+ seat structure has loads of spare real estate where a cup holder seemed it could go.
  2. The tray table has a fixed depth aspect, so you can't open it out then pull it closer towards you. You can half open it at the seat back. And you can fully open it and swing it across your body (from left to right in the starboard side herringbone in my case). But you can't get it fully open and closer.
  3. A pet peeve with aircraft headsets, where the plug socket is on the right hand side of the seat but the cable connects to the left ear-piece, so the cable drapes across your body if you wear them 'the right way around'. (Excellent, comfy, noice cancelling headset though.) And ditto the AVOD remote; the cable connects to 'the wrong end' when you're holding it the right way up as a gaming controller.
  4. The AVOD, as Freeth mentioned in another thread, seems a lot more responsive. That's good. However, of the two positions you can effectively have the thing running in; in place in the seat back in front, or rotated out in front of your body, in the former you can't tilt the screen, and in the latter it just seemed really really close - even though there was the real estate to push it further away from you, albeit you couldn't because the arm was at its capacity. Just a strange set-up, IMHO.
  5. The orientation of the seat was just a little unnerving, in that the seat back in front is square to the fuselage, but the seat itself herringboned. So I found myself sitting a bit sideways in the seat by default, which was bizarre, and no doubt a personal failing, but I mention it because it was so noticeable. My own NZ experience is that you can sit comfortably square in Y, and (more than) comfortably herringboned in J, but ... yeah ... unnerving is all I can say to describe the apparent mix in this cabin.
  6. I couldn't really 'get' the tilt function of the seat. You can recline it easily enough; back drops down a little, seat cushion pushes forward. But the tilt seemed to reverse most of that; lowering the rear of the seat cushion and raising the very front edge. So you ended up back in a 'straight L' overall position, just tipped back a bit. Maybe that's a fix for the tall folk, but for shorter folk that position is a DVT risk waiting to happen.
  7. The armrest on the aisle side - which is raised when you arrive, has a little release lever labelled 'Pull' that is supposed to drop the arm. It needs to say 'Twist or pull or push until you fluke a release'. :)

Legroom More than fine for me at something under 6ft, with the 'foot well' and foot cushion combo being significantly better than the next to useless footrest in PE on the 747. However, for taller pax there will be no escaping there being no such thing as 'under the seat in front of you'. i.e. The back of every seat is a bulkhead in its own right. The chap in 23F - who was easily 6'2", had his body twisted to get his legs out across the aisle.

Ease of getting in and out From the B, D, F and J seats fine. From the A and K seats a bit of a challenge, because the herringbone is so pronounced there.

Food Above average, due to the crew practicing a long-haul breakfast service on a TT flight, to generally familiarise themselves with the 77W set-up. A fruit salad to start, and then a choice of scrambled eggs, pancakes, or Bircher muesli. On proper (non-plastic) plates, with proper (non-plastic) cutlery / silverware. Nice. Yoghurt and croissants were offered separately. The kids got scrambled eggs, baked beans and sausage, plus a box of fruit-juice.

Drink NZ still does a great smoothie.

FA attentiveness Impressive, with that refreshing Kiwi air of familiarity; "I'm Kathy, and you are?" before take-off, and then "excuse me Dave" for the rest of the journey.

AVOD Outstanding compared to any other system on any other airline.

Would you do it again? If I scored these seats TT? Absolutely? With wife and kids in tow? Ditto, though I'd definitely select the DF seats for everyone, because they're "less private". (It's really hard to interact with your neighbour in the JK seats.) On a long long-haul? I'd do it for me and / or family for sure. Would I recommend it for someone over 6ft versus Y+ on a 747 / 777. A tough call.

Other thoughts? I wandered back to Y a couple of times, to see what I could see, and a couple of observations. It just looks cramped. 320 style cramped. Really narrow aisle cramped. And the plane was packed to the gills, with not a single skycouch in couch mode.

Overall impression? This new Y+ seat is a real innovation, and does NZ proud. In a MKII version they could address some minor niggles. If you're tall, don't choose a window seat. If you're really tall, save up for J ;)

Other, other observations? The kids got a nifty 'NZ Jet Cadets' kiddie pack, which might have been a unique thing for this being an early flight for the new aircraft. The crew were absolute professionals - presumably hand-picked to get the early experience. The ISD or whatever they're called now was Paul Smith. Why does that name ring a bell to me? The flight left 40 minutes late, made it nearly all up before descent, then lost 20 minutes in a protracted go-round.

Trafficbroker Jan 13, 11 7:24 am

thank you very much for the first review.

can you provide a bit more information regarding #6? this sounds as if the new pe+ is more suited for day flights or is it possible to get some sleep? regarding the dvt: is the bean bag not big enough so it can not be reached in a reclined position if one is < 6ft?

the seat looks a bit hard on the images or is it ok for longer flights?

NZ*Trout Jan 13, 11 8:19 am

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

The NZ Jet Cadets are a part of the new cabin sevice. Aimed at kids aged 5-12 or thereabouts, I believe. Should be perfect to keep me occupied on the long hauls! :p

Kiwi Flyer Jan 13, 11 10:41 am

Thanks for the detailed review kiwibigdave ^

mad_atta Jan 13, 11 11:03 am

Thanks for an excellent, comprehensive review kiwibigdave ^^


Originally Posted by kiwibigdave (Post 15648415)
Legroom More than fine for me at something under 6ft, with the 'foot well' and foot cushion combo being significantly better than the next to useless footrest in PE on the 747. However, for taller pax there will be no escaping there being no such thing as 'under the seat in front of you'. i.e. The back of every seat is a bulkhead in its own right. The chap in 23F - who was easily 6'2", had his body twisted to get his legs out across the aisle.
...
(It's really hard to interact with your neighbour in the JK seats.) On a long long-haul? I'd do it for me and / or family for sure. Would I recommend it for someone over 6ft versus Y+ on a 747 / 777. A tough call.

I'm interested in your comments about legroom and the JK seats. Did your 6'2" neighbour find that without twisting around, his feet were jammed up against the seat in front? That sounds like a bit of a worry - as a 6'2" person myself I always avoid bulkhead seats (like the old row 1 A320 J seats) for that very reason. Also, from your comment it sounds like the window seats have even less legroom - is that right?

Also, how hard is it for people in the window pairs to interact with each other, compared to, say, how hard it is in the current J seats if you're in seats one behind the other?


Originally Posted by kiwibigdave (Post 15648415)
The ISD or whatever they're called now was Paul Smith. Why does that name ring a bell to me? The flight left 40 minutes late, made it nearly all up before descent, then lost 20 minutes in a protracted go-round.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic... but if not this might help jog your memory ;)

kiwibigdave Jan 13, 11 12:16 pm


Originally Posted by Trafficbroker (Post 15649297)
can you provide a bit more information regarding #6? this sounds as if the new pe+ is more suited for day flights or is it possible to get some sleep? regarding the dvt: is the bean bag not big enough so it can not be reached in a reclined position if one is < 6ft?

The seat has two separate movements, with a lever each; recline and tilt. I guess my point is that I don't understand why the second is needed, as what it does is raise the front of the seat cushion and drop the rear. This has the effect of lifting your knees and sinking your butt. This won't affect anyone's ability to sleep - just don't action the lever. Ditto the bean bag, easy to reach either sitting or reclined, but if you activate the tilt it gets further away from your feet. I just don't know why you'd do that unless you were tall, in which case you lose recline as your butt sinks.


Originally Posted by Trafficbroker (Post 15649297)
the seat looks a bit hard on the images or is it ok for longer flights?

I didn't find it hard at all.




Originally Posted by mad_atta
I'm interested in your comments about legroom and the JK seats. Did your 6'2" neighbour find that without twisting around, his feet were jammed up against the seat in front? That sounds like a bit of a worry - as a 6'2" person myself I always avoid bulkhead seats (like the old row 1 A320 J seats) for that very reason.

He wasn't my neighbour, but I could see his legs from where I was sitting, so went to take a look. In any case your conclusion is the one I was suggesting; every Y+ seat is essentially a row 1 seat. e.g. In Y, if you're tall, you can always hunker down a little more and get your legs further under the seat in front. In this seat, as you've figured, once you hit the wall you hit the wall.

But I really don't want to make this sound worse than it is by accident. There is legroom, but it runs out. I'll be looking to hear from someone taller to report back on their actual experience.


Originally Posted by mad_atta
Also, from your comment it sounds like the window seats have even less legroom - is that right?

"My bad" - as they say up over. No - not less leg room, I was referring to the ease of getting in and out of the herringbone. Not impossible by any stretch - certainly easier than a middle seat in Y, but I believe much harder than it would be from the window Y+ seat on a 747.


Originally Posted by mad_atta
how hard is it for people in the window pairs to interact with each other, compared to, say, how hard it is in the current J seats if you're in seats one behind the other

Not as difficult as the J seats, but not by much. i.e. You do have to lean a reasonable way forward to even sight the person next door, and that wouldn't be comfortable for long. In fact, further to my comments about the monitor arm, I now wonder that you might not be able to lean far enough forward at all if the monitor was rotated out? You'd just scone yourself. Hmmm, maybe someone else can test that out?



Originally Posted by mad_atta
re Paul Smith

OK, that made me smile :) No, not being sarcastic, when I saw the name tag it just made me think I'd seen the name in an NZ context. i.e. I'd have got a similar feeling if the name tag said "Bruce Parton" - it just rang a bell.

kbd

NZ*Trout Jan 13, 11 1:59 pm

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I sawmentioned somewhere that the seat tilt is there to help stop those in smooth clothes(slippery, not specifically suave) from sliding down the seat when reclined. This seems like a nice idea in theory, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work in practice.

Blackcloud Jan 13, 11 3:39 pm


Originally Posted by NZ*Trout (Post 15652144)
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I sawmentioned somewhere that the seat tilt is there to help stop those in smooth clothes(slippery, not specifically suave) from sliding down the seat when reclined. This seems like a nice idea in theory, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work in practice.

I saw that as well.
However when I sat in a mock up in the WLG KC, I did not think that the "recline" was that impressive, I did notice the seat pan went forward.

everywhere Jan 14, 11 5:51 pm

Thanks kiwibigdave for the information,
It looks like there is no risk of the new PE cannibalising Business. My travel policy will not be changing, for one.

jeffrocowboy Jan 15, 11 1:36 pm

deleted

Gotta Requalify Jan 15, 11 5:10 pm

Route AKL-MEL - NZ123 – Jan 15
Day/Night flight Day (8am)
Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) Business - Window

Seat comfort (width ok?) Yes, not a lot of difference from the old business seats. I didn’t try the bed in bed mode, but it is lot more softer and has a felt rather than leather for the sleeping side. They also have two bigger pillows now and the small blue one has gone.
Buttons for seat, converting to bed etc. are in the same location, but are not touch sensitive, they are now buttons, that need to be pressed, so no accidental brushing. I think this was very positive.

Legroom Herringbone - easy to stretch out. Seat reclined a lot more so gap between seat and ottoman appeared less, when stretching out.

Ease of getting in and out No problem.

Food What food? As stated by KiwiBigDave, they are trying the Transpacific offering on Trans Tasman. Apart from getting a pre-departure drink, I was served nothing else for over 2 hours in a 3:15 flight. No Water, no other drinks, no food. When my main course for the breakfast did turn up 50 minutes before arrival, the serving size was larger than previous, the plates are larger, but the food was cold. You can see what they are trying to do, but they need more practise.

I was travelling with my family – the two children had special meals. One was a childs meal and the other was gluten free – their pre-plated meals turned up 45 minutes before arrival. They had nothing delivered to them before that. The child's meel was the same as the one described by KiwiBigDave. The Gluten Free Meal was Scrambled Eggs, Sausages and Hash Browns - Good Size as well. I had the hot cakes but they were cold.

Drink With 30 minutes to go I got served my first drink since before takeoff. They also have new glassware and plates for everything. The sparkling wine glasses are different.

FA attentiveness Sort off – They came and explained the new meal options and what they were trying. They rushed past every so often, but coming and seeing us – 2 hours into the flight before my table was set. They forgot table items and seemed stressed because they couldn’t get the galleys working properly. They tried to be attentive when you could get to talk to them. But failed overall.

AVOD Wonderful. Touch screen. Very responsive. Wouldn’t say better than other airlines. But vast improvement over the previous Air New Zealand system. Pressing the screen actioned straight away. Only slow part was the maps. You had to wait 30+ seconds after you touched the screen for anything to happen for the flight show, but other than that, everything was instant. Under TV, they had full seasons of The Simpsons, Family Guy, Glee, 6+ episodes of other TV series. Easy to navigate and find things.

The remote is there, but with everything on the screen, apart from volume control didn’t use it. The headphone socket is easy to see now and use. Apart from power, you also have a USB plug and the Apple iphone / ipod / ipad DIN connector to view your movies on the screen. But I didn’t use this option.

You could see the options for the order meals on demand, but these weren’t loaded on this flight.

Would you do it again? No – not for another 2-3 months until they sorted themselves out. I would also make sure I wasn’t on the first Trans-Pacific flight. They need a lot more on-board training, not just to get use to the new galleys and layout, but also the new eat when you want system, setting the tables, process flow for getting meals out of the galley.
Give it 3 months and they know what they are doing – you bet ya. The IFE is way better, the seat is more confortable.

Other thoughts?
They gave us some of the new amenity kits that they will be using long haul. Once I get my photos loaded, I will give you a better description of that. But early reaction is cute – but fails at a few basic levels., like reusability. Kids also got the

I flew RAR-AKL on Friday on the 772, and AKL-MEL on Saturday on the 77W so it was easy to compare the two planes. They have a different Safety video at the start. The 772 has the All Blacks one, on the 77W they have one featuring Rico. Not living in NZ, or watched any of the commercials, this was the first time I had seen or heard him. Everything in the video is subtitled except what Rico says. So I missed most of what he said. For the All Black safety video, it was interesting and worth watching each time. I doubt I would pay attention to the Rico one again, as it not attention grabbing.

The crew in Business had the new uniform on. It looked a lot better. I have a photo of old vs new to post.

Overall I can see where they are heading. It is in the right direction. But didn’t like the practise they gave on me. Waiting for over two hours in business class for any sort of service item was a bit too long.

serfty Jan 15, 11 6:13 pm


Originally Posted by Gotta Requalify (Post 15665983)
... I would also make sure I wasn’t on the first Trans-Pacific flight. They need a lot more on-board training, not just to get use to the new galleys and layout, but also the new eat when you want system, setting the tables, process flow for getting meals out of the galley. ...

It seems it's upon us ...

Originally Posted by serfty (Post 15666257)
Looks like the first transpacific operational flight is scheduled for TODAY!

NZ 6 AKL 16/01/11 7:15 PM LAX 16/01/11 10:30 AM 773
C2 D0 Z0 J0 U0 E0 O0 A0 Y7 B7 M2 H2 Q2 V0 W0 T0 L0 S0 G0 X0 K0 P0

NZ 5 LAX 16/01/11 10:00 PM AKL 18/01/11 8:00 AM 773
C2 D0 Z0 J0 U0 E0 O0 A0 Y7 B7 M7 H7 Q7 V6 W5 T2 L1 S0 G0 X0 K0 P0


Rotodavid123 Jan 16, 11 12:37 am

Flew the new 777 to Melbourne on NZ123 last wednesday. Was booked into 23 behind the bulkhead which was a little tight, but the plane wasn't full so swapped across the aisle.

Found the new seating very good even though sitting on an angle was a bit disconcerting at first. The new IFE was much improved although my elbow kept on bumping the remote and stopping the movie - until I worked out what was going on!

Its also very convenient have AC jacks close by.

All in all, much improved from the old PE.

DownUnderFlyer Jan 16, 11 1:28 am

I am surprised how excited people are about the 773. Aircraft wise a 777 is about the least comfortable plane IMHO. Loud, big, unpleasant. I can see the appeal for PE and maybe the skycouch but for Y or C I'd rather be on a 747.

Don't get me wrong, I like what NZ has done to PE and J on this bird, it really is just about the aircraft itself.

Just my $0.02.

Blackcloud Jan 16, 11 2:17 pm


Originally Posted by DownUnderFlyer (Post 15667641)
I am surprised how excited people are about the 773. Aircraft wise a 777 is about the least comfortable plane IMHO. Loud, big, unpleasant. I can see the appeal for PE and maybe the skycouch but for Y or C I'd rather be on a 747.

Don't get me wrong, I like what NZ has done to PE and J on this bird, it really is just about the aircraft itself.

Just my $0.02.

+1^
I really hate the 777 for those reasons.
Plus if you are a single Economy flyer then the new seats would not be comfortable at all.:td:

birder Jan 16, 11 2:18 pm


Originally Posted by Blackcloud (Post 15670331)
+1^
I really hate the 777 for those reasons.
Plus if you are a single Economy flyer then the new seats would not be comfortable at all.:td:

+2 :td:

everywhere Jan 16, 11 11:43 pm


Originally Posted by Gotta Requalify (Post 15665983)
...Food What food? As stated by KiwiBigDave, they are trying the Transpacific offering on Trans Tasman. Apart from getting a pre-departure drink, I was served nothing else for over 2 hours in a 3:15 flight. No Water, no other drinks, no food. When my main course for the breakfast did turn up 50 minutes before arrival, the serving size was larger than previous, the plates are larger, but the food was cold. You can see what they are trying to do, but they need more practise.

I was travelling with my family – the two children had special meals. One was a childs meal and the other was gluten free – their pre-plated meals turned up 45 minutes before arrival. They had nothing delivered to them before that. The child's meel was the same as the one described by KiwiBigDave. The Gluten Free Meal was Scrambled Eggs, Sausages and Hash Browns - Good Size as well. I had the hot cakes but they were cold.

Drink With 30 minutes to go I got served my first drink since before takeoff. They also have new glassware and plates for everything. The sparkling wine glasses are different.

...

Overall I can see where they are heading. It is in the right direction. But didn’t like the practise they gave on me. Waiting for over two hours in business class for any sort of service item was a bit too long.

That is quite appalling service.

kiwibigdave Jan 17, 11 3:29 am


Originally Posted by Gotta Requalify (Post 15665983)
Food What food? As stated by KiwiBigDave, they are trying the Transpacific offering on Trans Tasman. Apart from getting a pre-departure drink, I was served nothing else for over 2 hours in a 3:15 flight. No Water, no other drinks, no food. When my main course for the breakfast did turn up 50 minutes before arrival, the serving size was larger than previous, the plates are larger, but the food was cold. You can see what they are trying to do, but they need more practise.

I was travelling with my family – the two children had special meals. One was a childs meal and the other was gluten free – their pre-plated meals turned up 45 minutes before arrival. They had nothing delivered to them before that. The child's meel was the same as the one described by KiwiBigDave. The Gluten Free Meal was Scrambled Eggs, Sausages and Hash Browns - Good Size as well. I had the hot cakes but they were cold.

Drink With 30 minutes to go I got served my first drink since before takeoff. They also have new glassware and plates for everything. The sparkling wine glasses are different.

Overall I can see where they are heading. It is in the right direction. But didn’t like the practise they gave on me. Waiting for over two hours in business class for any sort of service item was a bit too long.

Picking up on this one after ntddevsys's comment, the service on the flight I was on was a bit better than described by Gotta Requalify, though I do recall thinking it was somewhat slow.

What strikes me now is both a comment elsewhere (from Freeth?) that they over-staffed the plane on the early journeys (my recollection was four crew in the Y+ zone), and an observation that this aircraft has almost the same number of seats in J and Y+; 44 vs 50. That's 94 'premium seats' on the 773, compared to 62 on the 772, and 85 on the 747.

So how that's going to pan out for future service levels will be very interesting methinks. i.e. If service was a little slow for me with around 1 crew to 10 pax in Y+, and slower for Gotta Requalify in J with presumably a similar ratio, how will fewer crew in future handle both cabins? Especially on a TT service.

Anyone know what the expected crew count is going to be 'up front' in the 773 when all is settled?

Gotta Requalify Jan 17, 11 5:47 am

They told me that for proper long haul flights, there will be a separate crew just for Y+, no longer will J crew also have to worry about the 50 Y+ passengers.

Not sure what galley they will cater from. Hopefully it won't be the J Galley as otherwise the back business cabin will see lots of meals coming pass going from the middle galley to the Y+ cabin.

cavemanzk Jan 17, 11 8:45 pm


Originally Posted by Gotta Requalify (Post 15673850)
They told me that for proper long haul flights, there will be a separate crew just for Y+, no longer will J crew also have to worry about the 50 Y+ passengers.

Not sure what galley they will cater from. Hopefully it won't be the J Galley as otherwise the back business cabin will see lots of meals coming pass going from the middle galley to the Y+ cabin.

From the seat maps it looks like there is a Galley between 3R/L can anyone comfirm?

kiwibigdave Jan 17, 11 9:03 pm


Originally Posted by cavemanzk (Post 15679188)
From the seat maps it looks like there is a Galley between 3R/L can anyone comfirm?

Correct, there's a galley between the Y+ and Y cabins.

Apparently siting it there posed some design challenges with respect to it being over mid-wing, a location you don't usually find a galley. (Something to do with wiring vs fuel transfer lines beneath?) But NZ wanted it available to serve Y+, and so that's what they got.

deconz Jan 22, 11 11:13 pm

Route: BNE/AKL 23/01/11
Day/Night flight: Day NZ 136
Cabin / Seat No: 5A (window)
Seat comfort (width ok?): Better than the 772 and 744
Legroom: Great - no bottom lip underneath the ottoman
Ease of getting in and out: Never a problem in BP
Food: Treated to a long haul meal service
Drink: Flowing well
FA attentiveness: Excellent - very lightly loaded in BP today
AVOD: Great wide screen - touch sense a bit slow
Would you do it again?: In a heart beat - wished I was going onto LAX tonight
Other thoughts?: Antipasto selection offered with pre-departure drinks. Awesome to be offered soup on NZ in J cabin. Food could have been a touch warmer but certainly was very tasty indeed. Steak ordered medium-rare and came more like medium. Fantastic LARGE wine glasses ^^^

Seat just a little softer - didn't bother trying out the bed on this very quick 2:35 TT crossing.

rowingman Jan 24, 11 12:19 pm

777-300 ER prem econ seat review
 
Route akl to lax

Day/Night flight nz 6, dept 7pm, arr 10am +/-

Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) Prem Econ, middle (K?)

Seat comfort (width ok?):[I] I fly a lot, and felt compelled to submit my first posting ever. Seats are a bit odd. At 6'1", I found the "every seat a bulkhead" comment rang true. The leg well is small in width, and the seat is intentionally angled from the fuselage, which leaves me a bit twisted. I found the leg well smaller than merely sliding down and extending my legs under a seat in front of me (economy or many domestic biz or first seats), so less leg freedom. I am not large, but the width is an issue as my elbow kept shutting off the AVOD, or turning on or off the reading lamp.[/I]

Legroom:
choices were legs together in the well on the bean bag, or lowering the between seat armrest and sitting with legs spread.

Ease of getting in and out: just fine, but again, this is an odd airline seat. The ANZ website/advertising shows some lithe female draping her shapely legs across her seatmate. I found myself during my 10 hr stay thinking that she must have contortionist among her virtues given that I couldn't figure out how anyone could accomplish that in any comfortable way. I did not dread this seat, but it is decidedly economy with some pluses, and maybe a bit of minus. If you can snag exit row in economy, I might work to save the money. Food: lots of plates, silverware, table setting and clearning. I liked the rubber placemats (things don't slide). Table is small (back to seat comments above, similar to prior post about the table placement), and kind of limited in its range of motion.

Drink:
ANZ international service, cocktails mixed on the cart from regular sized bottles, NZ vodka and wines, nice glassware (bubbly glasses particularly nice). Better than 90% of other carriers.

FA attentiveness:Good, but obviously they are figuring out the airplane. Some were carrying instructions on how to operate the ovens. We did have 10 hrs to get to know each other. They seemed so busy that I did not want to burden them by using the AVOD system to order a coffee. I waited them out. ANZ french press coffee is always most appreciated and better than other carriers (Qantas does well on that front as well).

AVOD:The screen is quite large for the distance from your face to the screen given seat pitch. On its swivel arm (which was a bit loose so it tended to move toward me on ascent or turbulence) it is almost too close to look at comfortably (try sitting too close to your television for the effect), so I kept it stowed and swiveled my neck instead. Airshow or whatever it is called does take some time to boot. My traveling compadre had his screen "reboot" twice from a frozen state (even got what looked like a C prompt for those of us from a certain age). Movie selection was great. Overall an 8 or 9 out of 10, although my screen did not reboot. The jack location for the headset did create some problem. My elbow kept hitting it, and that resulted in a huge screech from the noice cancellation (back to the seat review above, re seat width).

Would you do it again?: I might fly economy if I could book exit row (take your bag out of the overhead after takeoff and use it for a stretch your legs leg rest. Frankly most of my travel is in J, and this was an experiment trying to save $$ over Qantas J. ANZ has generally great service, great flight attendants, and clean airplanes. I felt compelled to write the review (and join flyertalk after reading it for some time) given that the Prem Econ seat seems a bit odd, somehow tight (86 kg, 185cm person). But I hesitate because I greatly appreciate ANZ's effort and innovativeness in this attempt.

mad_atta Jan 24, 11 5:42 pm


Originally Posted by rowingman (Post 15724491)
Route akl to lax

Day/Night flight nz 6, dept 7pm, arr 10am +/-

Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) Prem Econ, middle (K?)

Seat comfort (width ok?):[I] I fly a lot, and felt compelled to submit my first posting ever. Seats are a bit odd. At 6'1", I found the "every seat a bulkhead" comment rang true. The leg well is small in width, and the seat is intentionally angled from the fuselage, which leaves me a bit twisted. I found the leg well smaller than merely sliding down and extending my legs under a seat in front of me (economy or many domestic biz or first seats), so less leg freedom. I am not large, but the width is an issue as my elbow kept shutting off the AVOD, or turning on or off the reading lamp.[/I]

Legroom:
choices were legs together in the well on the bean bag, or lowering the between seat armrest and sitting with legs spread.

Ease of getting in and out: just fine, but again, this is an odd airline seat. The ANZ website/advertising shows some lithe female draping her shapely legs across her seatmate. I found myself during my 10 hr stay thinking that she must have contortionist among her virtues given that I couldn't figure out how anyone could accomplish that in any comfortable way. I did not dread this seat, but it is decidedly economy with some pluses, and maybe a bit of minus. If you can snag exit row in economy, I might work to save the money. Food: lots of plates, silverware, table setting and clearning. I liked the rubber placemats (things don't slide). Table is small (back to seat comments above, similar to prior post about the table placement), and kind of limited in its range of motion.

Drink:
ANZ international service, cocktails mixed on the cart from regular sized bottles, NZ vodka and wines, nice glassware (bubbly glasses particularly nice). Better than 90% of other carriers.

FA attentiveness:Good, but obviously they are figuring out the airplane. Some were carrying instructions on how to operate the ovens. We did have 10 hrs to get to know each other. They seemed so busy that I did not want to burden them by using the AVOD system to order a coffee. I waited them out. ANZ french press coffee is always most appreciated and better than other carriers (Qantas does well on that front as well).

AVOD:The screen is quite large for the distance from your face to the screen given seat pitch. On its swivel arm (which was a bit loose so it tended to move toward me on ascent or turbulence) it is almost too close to look at comfortably (try sitting too close to your television for the effect), so I kept it stowed and swiveled my neck instead. Airshow or whatever it is called does take some time to boot. My traveling compadre had his screen "reboot" twice from a frozen state (even got what looked like a C prompt for those of us from a certain age). Movie selection was great. Overall an 8 or 9 out of 10, although my screen did not reboot. The jack location for the headset did create some problem. My elbow kept hitting it, and that resulted in a huge screech from the noice cancellation (back to the seat review above, re seat width).

Would you do it again?: I might fly economy if I could book exit row (take your bag out of the overhead after takeoff and use it for a stretch your legs leg rest. Frankly most of my travel is in J, and this was an experiment trying to save $$ over Qantas J. ANZ has generally great service, great flight attendants, and clean airplanes. I felt compelled to write the review (and join flyertalk after reading it for some time) given that the Prem Econ seat seems a bit odd, somehow tight (86 kg, 185cm person). But I hesitate because I greatly appreciate ANZ's effort and innovativeness in this attempt.

Thanks for the great and comprehensive report, rowingman, and welcome to FT :)

How did you find it for sleeping? Any comments on the recline or sleeping comfort otherwise? And did you find that the beanbag usefully raised your feet a bit? Also, I'd be curious to know whether you ever tried the previous generation NZ Y+ seat as that would provide a useful reference point.

rowingman Jan 25, 11 3:30 pm

You are more than welcome mad_atta. I found sleeping a bit contorted (the every seat is a bulkhead comment someone else made rings true to my experience). I commuted DC to Europe weekly for three years, and now go US transcon every other week, and consequently have a lot of airplane sleeping experience under my belt, and this wasn't the best. I can and have slept standing up (don't ask), but the Prem Econ seat is a tight fit without a lot of flexibility.

With even a standard coach seat, with long legs if you "slouch" and can generally get your legs and feet completely stretched out under the seat in front of you. With the NZ Prem Econ seat, your leg room is more restricted (width and depth), hence my comment about either jamming my legs together in the well on the bean bag (where I found a knee knocker bump of plastic which created issues), or sitting with legs spread, knees bent (sorry for the image) with the between seat armrest down. The bean bag was good for elevating your feet off the floor, and perhaps a quick hamstring stretch, but reading about the seat prior to travel, I was hoping it would be sufficient for back of calf leg rest support, which it was not, probably due to size of bean bag and depth of the foot well. The depth of the footwell prevented me front simultaneously extending my legs and elevating them off the floor.

To directly answer your question, I have flown J on ANZ previously in the old seat, and Prem Econ on VS more frequently than I care to admit, and push come to shove, I would probably take the oldest VS Prem Econ seat over the new ANZ seat. I like ANZ, the safety videos, the flight attendents (not to be sexist, but the NZ domestic ANZ flight attendents are among the most attractive women I have seen flying, comparable to Emirates crew), the kiwi ethos etc, but I think the new seat may be a case of less might actually have been more. There is a lot going on with this seat. But they should be applauded for the effort.

RandyNZ Jan 27, 11 10:12 pm

Welcome to FT, rowingman, and thanks for the trip report!

Did you notice whether people in the A/B and J/K seats had to climb over each other to access the aisle? Did those seats on the sides seem to give a sense of privacy for pax?

I liked your comment about the lady being a contortionist - I must admit that it crossed my mind that my neighbour may not like me doing that! :p

kiwigirl2 Jan 29, 11 10:57 am

Route: Lax to Auckland

Day/Night flight: Night. NZ 5 departed 10pm.

Cabin/Seat no: 25 E&D adults in 'couples seating' and kids in 24 A&B in individual seats on left hand side. Weird seat numbering. Reccomend family traveling together to check seat map to ensure they are seated together. We were originally all in row 24, but this would have left the kids seated opposite strangers not us.

My hubby and I really enjoyed our seats. By leaving the padded table between us down, we gained extra room between us. Made things feel very spacious. Of course this feature wasnt available for our girls seated in A&B.

Downside. The tilt mechanism is a complete pain!!! Everyone we talked to had problems. The kids simply couldnt put their seat back without help and it took me 5 attempts to sort mine out. Then after all the fiddling around, it was kind of like "is that it???" Not as much recline as I had anticipated or wished for.
Also the pocket in front is tight and tiny. Thinking of bringing that thick paperback book to read on a long haul flight and storing it there....I think not.

Legroom: We arent 6 foot tall so had plenty of room. Just took a bit to get used to being slightly angled to the side. For couples in the middle this means you are angled away from each other. If you want to turn and talk to each other you should put the padded table up between you and swivel your legs under it, coz theres simply no room otherwise. ie Gone are the days of putting your feet under the seat in front.
We thought the beanbag foot rest was a nice touch.

FA Attentiveness: Brilliant. Couldn't have been better. Went around each passenger as plane filled and answered questions and explained different features. Were very apologetic when meals etc were late. Explained they were still getting used to the new systems. Quite understandable I thought.

AVOD: Looks amazing. I think it will be a huge improvement on the old system. Unfortunately we didn't get the full effect as it wasn't working properly. The Games feature didn't work at all, much to my kids despair and neither did the Airshow or the newest feature My Flight. Very disappointing. Especially on such a long flight. We also didn't know how to turn the jolly thing off, as it was a touch screen we assumed you would turn it off on the screen somewhere, but couldnt see how. After trying to sleep with it shining in my face for several hours, I finally asked a FA who didn't know himself. Discovered the off button was located in the control panel beside my shoulder, that was forgotten under my pillow. Probably quite logical really, but considering we had been travelling for days at this stage, our brains had become mush I think.

Meals: Very late arriving. Both kids had well and truly fallen asleep. Huge delays between starter and hot meals. At least an hour if not more. Ran out of cutlery at one stage. Believe they went to Economy searching for more.
At breakfast my hubby had his rubber placemat, and cutlery removed after the fruit and yoghurt was finished with. We were surprised at this and thought the meal was small if this was all there was. Another FA came along 10 mins later and asked why no one wanted more as there was still a hot meal for breakfast to come. Was put into a bit of a 'flap' when realised someone had mistakenly taken everything away from quite a few passengers. This of course coursed another delay and everything was replaced.

Drinks: Were only offered 2 during the flight (with meals). As my AVOD wasn't working couldn't order more on demand.

Bassinetts: A close friend was travelling with her 3 month old child in PE. She was exhausted as had been travelling for many hours before this flight. FA unable to locate a basinett for her.
Bit of an oversight. Spend first 2 hrs trying to settle her son on a pillow beside her, but was really concerned that it wasnt safe. Eventually took her through to Business and settled them on a flat bed together.

Final thoughts: Would we do it again? Yes. Sure they have some problems to tweek and iron out, but give them a couple of weeks, and things will be perfect I'm sure. Much superior product to the old PE seats. Have to remember this is an economy product, not business.

Thai-Kiwi Jan 29, 11 11:50 am

Excellent report! I do presume that there is a crew 'call button' to get attention for assistance? Noting your comment below....

Originally Posted by kiwigirl2 (Post 15760773)
Drinks: ...As my AVOD wasn't working couldn't order more on demand.

Cheers, TK

kiwibigdave Jan 29, 11 3:34 pm


Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi (Post 15761094)
I do presume that there is a crew 'call button' to get attention for assistance?

It's on the remote, in the side of the armrest.

taupo Jan 29, 11 6:19 pm

Have any of you that have experienced the new PE, experienced the old as well?
I am curious for a comparison between the two.

At 6'4", I am not liking what I am reading so far about the new PE.

It is sounding a little gimmicky and innovative for the sake of it, as opposed to being entirely functional.

serfty Jan 29, 11 6:52 pm

I have experinced PE on the 772 and the 744. (744 better as seats are wider)


I was waiting in LAX T2 customs/immigration and overhead some discussions about the lack of space for feet when in comparison. I am yet to experience the new PE, but can fully understand.

nzlilibet Jan 29, 11 7:50 pm


Originally Posted by serfty (Post 15763047)
I have experinced PE on the 772 and the 744. (744 better as seats are wider)

All the PE seats on the 772 are 3 across. On the 744 there is 2 across seating in the downstairs cabin and also on the JK side of the upper cabin. This is a great advantage imo and I'm going to miss the 744.

kiwibigdave Jan 30, 11 12:24 am


Originally Posted by taupo (Post 15762894)
Have any of you that have experienced the new PE, experienced the old as well?

I have. Quite a few times upstairs on the 747 long-haul, a few more times upstairs and once in the mini-cabin downstairs TT, and a couple of TT sectors on the 772.

Originally Posted by taupo (Post 15762894)
I am curious for a comparison between the two.

I'd now rank the D and F 773 seats above all others, because you could be assured no-one would be climbing over you, irrespective of row. If I had to have a window seat I reckon I'd go with the K seats upstairs on the 747. The 3 across in the 772 and ABC seats upstairs on the 747 rank last. The AB and JK 773 seats, 747 mini-cabin, and H seats upstairs on the 747 are all somewhere in the middle. But, I rank them that way because I'm not tall.


Originally Posted by taupo (Post 15762894)
At 6'4", I am not liking what I am reading so far about the new PE.

And if I was 6'4" I wouldn't either. The 747 mini-cabin, HK upstairs on the 747, and the 772 exit rows would all be a better choice than any seat on the 773. IMHO.

Originally Posted by taupo (Post 15762894)
It is sounding a little gimmicky and innovative for the sake of it, as opposed to being entirely functional.

The privacy innovation is actually top-notch; with the cacoon feel and herringbone layout being a real step-up. The every-seat-a-bulkhead innovation is a step back.

So I stand by my earlier comments. The 773 PE remains no J, but it sure beats the heck out of Y. For everyone except the tall!

kiwigirl2 Jan 30, 11 1:27 am


Originally Posted by kiwibigdave (Post 15762204)
It's on the remote, in the side of the armrest.

Thanks for that kiwibigdave. To be honest I never found it. But even if I had I probably wouldn't have used it. Would have felt too guilty. The FA's had enough on their plates as it was. They really were trying hard, and I felt for them.

brenrox Jan 30, 11 3:56 pm


Originally Posted by kiwigirl2 (Post 15760773)
Route: Lax to Auckland

Day/Night flight: Night. NZ 5 departed 10pm.

Cabin/Seat no: 25 E&D adults in 'couples seating' and kids in 24 A&B in individual seats on left hand side. Weird seat numbering. Reccomend family traveling together to check seat map to ensure they are seated together. We were originally all in row 24, but this would have left the kids seated opposite strangers not us.

My hubby and I really enjoyed our seats. By leaving the padded table between us down, we gained extra room between us. Made things feel very spacious. Of course this feature wasnt available for our girls seated in A&B.

Downside. The tilt mechanism is a complete pain!!! Everyone we talked to had problems. The kids simply couldnt put their seat back without help and it took me 5 attempts to sort mine out. Then after all the fiddling around, it was kind of like "is that it???" Not as much recline as I had anticipated or wished for.
Also the pocket in front is tight and tiny. Thinking of bringing that thick paperback book to read on a long haul flight and storing it there....I think not.

Legroom: We arent 6 foot tall so had plenty of room. Just took a bit to get used to being slightly angled to the side. For couples in the middle this means you are angled away from each other. If you want to turn and talk to each other you should put the padded table up between you and swivel your legs under it, coz theres simply no room otherwise. ie Gone are the days of putting your feet under the seat in front.
We thought the beanbag foot rest was a nice touch.

FA Attentiveness: Brilliant. Couldn't have been better. Went around each passenger as plane filled and answered questions and explained different features. Were very apologetic when meals etc were late. Explained they were still getting used to the new systems. Quite understandable I thought.

AVOD: Looks amazing. I think it will be a huge improvement on the old system. Unfortunately we didn't get the full effect as it wasn't working properly. The Games feature didn't work at all, much to my kids despair and neither did the Airshow or the newest feature My Flight. Very disappointing. Especially on such a long flight. We also didn't know how to turn the jolly thing off, as it was a touch screen we assumed you would turn it off on the screen somewhere, but couldnt see how. After trying to sleep with it shining in my face for several hours, I finally asked a FA who didn't know himself. Discovered the off button was located in the control panel beside my shoulder, that was forgotten under my pillow. Probably quite logical really, but considering we had been travelling for days at this stage, our brains had become mush I think.

Meals: Very late arriving. Both kids had well and truly fallen asleep. Huge delays between starter and hot meals. At least an hour if not more. Ran out of cutlery at one stage. Believe they went to Economy searching for more.
At breakfast my hubby had his rubber placemat, and cutlery removed after the fruit and yoghurt was finished with. We were surprised at this and thought the meal was small if this was all there was. Another FA came along 10 mins later and asked why no one wanted more as there was still a hot meal for breakfast to come. Was put into a bit of a 'flap' when realised someone had mistakenly taken everything away from quite a few passengers. This of course coursed another delay and everything was replaced.

Drinks: Were only offered 2 during the flight (with meals). As my AVOD wasn't working couldn't order more on demand.

Bassinetts: A close friend was travelling with her 3 month old child in PE. She was exhausted as had been travelling for many hours before this flight. FA unable to locate a basinett for her.
Bit of an oversight. Spend first 2 hrs trying to settle her son on a pillow beside her, but was really concerned that it wasnt safe. Eventually took her through to Business and settled them on a flat bed together.

Final thoughts: Would we do it again? Yes. Sure they have some problems to tweek and iron out, but give them a couple of weeks, and things will be perfect I'm sure. Much superior product to the old PE seats. Have to remember this is an economy product, not business.

Thanks for this! Whats the 'My Flight' feature on the AVOD?

serfty Jan 30, 11 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by brenrox (Post 15767471)
Thanks for this! Whats the 'My Flight' feature on the AVOD?

It gives a timeline for the availability of various services during your flight. It can be used as an aide in planning how to spend your 12/13 hours.

rowingman Jan 31, 11 8:56 am


Originally Posted by RandyNZ (Post 15751617)
Welcome to FT, rowingman, and thanks for the trip report!

Did you notice whether people in the A/B and J/K seats had to climb over each other to access the aisle? Did those seats on the sides seem to give a sense of privacy for pax?

I liked your comment about the lady being a contortionist - I must admit that it crossed my mind that my neighbour may not like me doing that! :p

yes, there was quite a bit of climbing and aisle passenger coming out of their seat. the window seats are both perpedicular to the exterior, and in some cases canted (unsure how one could tell this from the ANZ seat map on the website, but the two on the window side seats are not all the same, so be careful what you book). a couple on the window seats next to me had a tough time reclining their seat, which brought a flight attendent to working with the A seat to get it to move. this obviously required the aisle person to get up. but similarly, when she wanted to get out, her mate had to get up as well.

as for whether you allow your neighbor to reenact the photo on the ANZ advertising, i would imagine it all depends on what your neighbor looks like and how friendly she might be......

honestly, next time i will work harder for a J seat on either ANZ or Qantas. the novelty of this for me was a one time thing i won't repeat. Virgin Atlantic's PE seat is (a) simpler and (b) more comfortable.

everywhere Feb 1, 11 1:44 am

Is advance request for Row 23 on the 77W (Premium Economy bulkhead) restricted at all or is it necessary to book a long way in advance for these seats?

Rebound Feb 1, 11 2:28 am

Some photos of the narrow aisles on Airliners.net

777 Y - http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-N...-ER/1859076/L/
777 Y+ - http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-N...-ER/1859077/L/


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