I'd be interested in "row 23" experiences too...

That is where the bassinets are so having the row greyed out on the website makes sense... but if they are not "needed" how does one request such a seat?

Wait until check in/lounge?

Call xx days in advance?

Have never wanted "bulkhead" seats before so I have no idea....:confused:

yes very narrow aisle in Y, get ready for lots of bumps in the night esp from those who seem to like to bang into every seat as they head of to the toielt

that said in your pic it shows the 57B (the first of the 3 paired sears down the back) - which might be the go for those of us at the back

23 D and F have the advantage you can extend your legs out into the aisle, there should be little through trafic

My experince with being allocated a PE seat and what's available on AirNZ.co.nz and Expertflyer show that (in my case at least) if a seat in row 23 on the 773 is unavailable for selection then it has indeed been allocated.

I had no probs selecting 23D/E for flights in Jun (works x1, seat-only x 2).

gave them up in preference for seats further aft after hearing issues with stowing IFE screens prior to arrival. TK family is all under 1.7m, so leg room not an issue........

hi Thai-Kiwi and everyone, I am new to flyertalk! I have been on the 777-300ER with AirNZ last week and I look forward to be on it! Hence I am thinking of flying to MEL on Sat/Sun

Thai-Kiwi, can you please confirm that I can select PE seats with "The works"? I was thinking for a moment if I need Work Deluxe... but then not sure...

Many thanks!

and yes, the corridors are very very narrow in PE... I need to keep to saying excuse me and "presses" through people during the tour..

You can select seats in the PE section of the 77W on non-Works Deluxe fares only if you are Air NZ Gold, Gold Elite, Koru or Star Alliance Gold. Otherwise a Works fare will entitle you to normal Economy seating only.

Works Deluxe fares are seated in the PE section irrespective of status.

Welcome to FT :)

Many thanks for this, Top of Climb..
I am on NZ Gold =) and hoping that I can maintain it coz I will not fly as much this year... >_____<.... so I can just book in "the works"?

=)


haha.. I have booked and secured PE seat 23D on 773 on "the works"

thanks

or the first 2 rows of Economy have two seats of 2 seats on each side :D

serfty...

Yes, that may well be the case... but I am a little doubtful about it.. as I booked quite early.. and the whole row 23 was greyed out even then..

Not overly fussed (hoping like heck of course thet the requested cert UG comes through anyway!)... but if 23D is/becomes available then it looks pretty good to me...:D

Route: NZ5 LAX-AKL
Day/Night flight: Night
Cabin / Seat No. (aisle / window / middle): Premium Economy 30E
Seat comfort (width ok?): Width was acceptable, overall comfort was fairly low (see below).
Legroom: Very poor.
Ease of getting in and out: Fairly reasonable.
Food: Very good.
Drink: Very good (until NZ*Trout broke his).
FA attentiveness: Very good; but noted that there were extra crew on the aircraft as well as the concierge helping out with the service, and that the crew looked very tired at the end of the service, I think that NZ will have to do more here.
AVOD: Screen is nice, although the lack of polarisation is a negative as it increases the cabin light pollution in a very white cabin. The IFE itself was nice, relatively responsive (although not good enough, imho), but it crashed four or five times on me - the first before we had departed.
Would you do it again?: Probably not.
Other thoughts?: Lots!

Unfortunately I was seated next to NZ*Trout on this sector so my view is somewhat skewed. We originally had 27J and 28J, but were able to snag 30D/30E about 48 hours from departure.

The cabin is very white and very nice looking, although I think they will struggle to keep it looking so pure. There is a lot of plane for boarding passengers to walk through, so I'd strongly recommend boarding very late for Business or PE passengers. We boarded relatively early and learned this error quickly.

I really wanted to like the seat, because of the marketing I'd read and seen about it. I had never visited Hangar 9 so I did not know what to expect, but I was sorely disappointed by it. The legroom is utterly pathetic and definitely worse than a domestic 733 in Space+, and I was overall uncomfortable on the flight. I did sleep in it... but I can sleep on pretty much anything and in any class of service.

Seat thoughts:
- The tilt function is worthless, except to remind you that un-tilted is less uncomfortable than tilted.
- There are lots of usability bugs in the design: e.g. the handset for the IFE should be in the seatback infront of you. There is no cupholder which could either go in the seatback or in the middle 'divider'. The middle divider has to be down for takeoff and landing. The headphone plug is not on the seat infront of you, but to the side so you potentially have cords wrapped around you. They use a non-standard video connector for iPod etc attachment (!). All extremely minor stuff but you do have to wonder about it - these were assessments made in about the first 90 seconds of sitting in the seat.
- The width is fine, I was relatively comfortable in that regard.
- The recline is basically a joke and severely impacts the legroom you have. In my case I went from one leg hard up against the seat in front to two, which was very uncomfortable.
- The legroom overall is extremely poor and I was disappointed. Removing a row from the aircraft would probably help this a lot. The lack of legroom does also make it look / feel a bit weird climbing in and out of the seat.
- There appears to be a bug in the table design in that glasses will eventually slide off it if left unattended (and not for long periods!). The meals are served on a rubberised mat for traction which is a good idea, but the table slope when weight is applied will be a problem.
- I didn't try to use my laptop in the seat but I can't say I'd feel it's (comfortably) feasible.
- TV placement is weird. It's either in the seat back or right in front of your eyeballs.
- If you are travelling as a couple, the orientation of the seat ensures you will get a sore back after about 45 minutes trying to talk to/maintain eye contact with each other. I solved this by ignoring NZ*T ;) but it's not wonderful. I noticed a couple in 27AB were also finding it a bit weird to work with.
- Observation from a colleague is that the JK seats are awful; and there is an additional pair of seats on the starboard side which makes me wonder if there is less pitch vs port.

The food and drink was great - it does seem like an improvement. I had heard from the crew that there were significant problems with the new ovens on the aircraft, and by my flight (6th revenue Pacific sector) they were operating with a mix of old and new ovens. The crew were attentive but they were very busy in dealing with the service, and noted that they had additional crew onboard to support the introduction. I really think they will struggle with this.

The IFE's ordering service intermittently worked - some things were disabled for various parts of the flights without rhyme nor reason. NZ*Trout was able to order a toasted sandwich which arrived, but mine didn't. His ordered iPod video connector did not arrive (and the crew had indicated during taxi that these would be available for purchase, but the ordering system on the IFE did not reflect this).

I specifically booked this flight to try out the new seat since I'm finally living in an NZ served port so will likely be back on NZ metal again, but I'm pretty depressed about it. I had really wanted to like this and for it to work out, but overall the impression is a net negative due to the seat. I'll continue to book Premium Economy, but only on the older metal. After that I'll book Economy and get an exit row (although I really shudder when I think of Economy on the 10-abreast layout, given NZ*Trout's comments).

There was a Canadian passenger seated behind me who did like the seat a lot; but he was comparing it to EK Y...

And finally, yes I recognise that this is premium ECONOMY, not PREMIUM economy, but the fare charged for product delivered on some sectors are starting to get into the PREMIUM ECONOMY levels. For USD2500 return I wasn't unhappy, but I will avoid the new seats as much as possible.

Negative reviews of the economy seating are now circulating in the mainstream media...hope NZ's official response is not the same as reported was given by the FA ("if you don't like it, you should have flown business"). But what possible response could NZ give anyway??? The proof of the pudding is now out in the open.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/new...ectid=10704723

Not exactly a review, but here's reported concern from FA's re cuddle class. But didn't the pathetic sleazebag Rico seem to hint with a nudge and wink that this was one of the very reasons why pax should consider cuddle class?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/new...ectid=10623294

Just a quick post as I've been scanning this thread - I will come back and tidy this and add detail when I get a minute to sit down. I flew on the 777-300 Business Premier AKL-LAX 2 weeks ago today - absolutely bowled over - fantastic. I had high expectations for this new plane and they were well exceeded. Just a few highlights:

- bed is now extremely comfortable, to be exact the padding on the seat is much thicker and softer, you can't feel the ridges at the joins. Then, on top of that, you get a 5cm memory foam mattress - cumulative effect is it is more comfortable than my bed at home and by far the most comfortable bed I've slept in on an aircraft
- food is bistro on the ground quality. The FAs bring around an extensive menu and ask what you'd like to order - basically pick and choose from anything. Eg I had a ceasar salad, followed by an excellent burger (I was going comfort food) freshly cooked with cheese just melting on a real toasted bun, then pavlova and ice cream. The gent in front of me had a salad as a main then went straight to sleep, others were having pizza, others decided to go gourmet and went for the top end chefs creations. Service was fine - eg the salad gent was served about 30 mins after reaching cruise and was asleep at 45 - I believe they're still working on this
- crew absolutely loved the new plane, and were excellent despite the fact they are obviously working harder
- breakfast - loads of options, but my favourite is the continental buffet that is set up in the middle galley. Just like a hotel, no waiting for service just go grab a plate or bowl and help yourself from a range of things include cereals, fruit, breads, toast, sliced cheese and meats etc.
- plane is ultra stylish, and because the cabin is white it effectively changes colour throughout the flight - it's never actually white. Eg on boarding it's all mood lighting purple, at night they used dark blues and purple, morning you get a mix of mood lighting and the natural light reflecting off the white surfaces as the sun comes up. It probably looks white on the ground, but in flight it really comes alive and I found it extremely relaxing.

In short - BP is stunning.

Cheers, Zac

I did raise this as a potential issue way back when these seats were announced - will be interested to see how this pans out.

maybe this is the official line, i certainly was told at the 777-300 open day when I commented that it seemed very cramped at the back that I should book PE or BP

do you think AirNZ will respond?

To be fair, that is a pretty valid response by the flight attendant. I don't like Y, so I try to avoid it where I can (my personal travel is rarely in Y; while work usually is). The review is also somewhat questionable given that it refers to NZ's new First Class product. Ahem...

Interesting that the cuddle class concern article refers to passengers already cuddling up together in Business Premier - I had often wondered if that was actually feasible. Of course NZ has somewhat encouraged these sort of antics on the aircraft with their Love Flight in the past; and I know at least one member on here has a special membership :D that the crew congratulated him for.

Actually, I don't think that's a valid response - people who have flown Air NZ economy are used to a certain amount of room. Now, when they fly the new aircraft, they will find their personal space dramatically reduced from what they were used to on Air NZ. It will piss people off, and no wonder.

There is little alternative: the crew cannot reconfigure the aircraft (and especially not while in flight, although that would be entertaining).

If you don't like the lack of space (I don't), don't fly it [in the cabin class you dislike]. I flew the aircraft, unimpressed by it, and will redirect spend accordingly - either to competitive carriers in Y or to alternate cabins.

Thats exactly right isnt it. Air New Zealand made business decisions around how they would do things. Im fortunate to fly J long-haul and love the new product. I quite liked PE understanding many of you havent and I would rather not travel than go long-haul in the new economy.

Where we as customers spend our money is our business decision. The new BP will keep me at NZ. They need to judge if the economy product will pull customers.

Yes - after they've flown it once. Most people won't know that their space is dramatically reduced until they take one flight on it. So on that first flight, I think they have a right to be angry. Of course, I do agree that taking it out on flight attendants is a poor choice - it's certainly not their fault!

Some observation about the AVOD:
I'll post more if I think of anything to add.

Some thoughts from the 77W open day (contrast with the launch).

I will note the "minor" enhancements to the Business product have turned it from a marginally average offering to a leader.

The Mattress is far softer (just about any thing would have been better), the 'doona' works really well.

All they need to do is to add PJ's.

(The amenity kit is ... meh ... )

Hi serfty - absolutely agree. It looks like BP was actually the big winner out of all the changes. Fabulous product. BTW reading through this thread it appears we were on the same flight.

I'll reserve judgement on PE until I've flown it - I did try out the seats and they were comfortable, although I didn't spend much time in them. For those worried about legroom I'd go for the first row - the middle pair especially have a lot of legroom - more than in BP.

Economy seemed fine - it looks more crowded as more of the floor area is taken up with seats rather than aisle, but the aisle is still fine (eg I could walk down it without touching the sides - I expected to walk sideways given the horror stories). All my personal travel is economy so expect to spend a fair amount of time here unless upgrades come through. Would be great to hear how the service flow is structured, although FT prob isn't the place to get the lowdown on Y.

One thing that did strike me in Economy was that the seats were much larger then they look on the photos. I think it's perspective as the PTVs are so big - i.e. they make the rest of the seat seem small until you see it live.

Great to see that the escape slides are built into the doors - the economy exit rows have no protruding door coverings, and all have great legroom.

There were dozens of small enhancements I noticed throughout the flight - don't want to spoil the surprises for those of you yet to travel, but there has definitely been a lot of thought put in to this cabin. The new service concept in BP is wonderful. Looking forward to many more flights on these planes.

Cheers, Zac

I'd agree with this - I haven't sat in them, but I did have a look during deplaning and they did look much more spacious than the rest of the PE cabin.
180+ service flow changes!

After reading reviews of the new Business product, it seems to me, that AirNZ are on to a winner. Everyone seems completely thrilled with the changes in comfort.

One wonders if this will now have a flow on effect, and they will do something to improve the mattress and/or duvet on the 747 ?

I realise they are going to slowly phase this aircraft out..... but in the mean time???

Some of us have flights to Vancouver and are feeling jealous. :p

Flew 772 Business on Monday and it had an additional much thicker mattress pad in it as well as the older one. I've not seen this before, although last 772 Business flight was in November.

Nothing else had changed that I noticed.

That must be the new BP mattress - if so, great to hear it's being introduced into the regular BP as well ^

For those who haven't flown it, the new BP has a much thicker padding on the seatback, plus a seperate memory foam mattress stored behind the seat that you unroll ontop (I guessed it about 5cms thick, and is pre-fitted with the bedsheet). Ontop of that goes the blanket and 2 larger pillows.

The mattress is cut to fit the BP seat, but as the dimensions are the same there is no reason they can't offer this on the 747s/772s - hopefully this is the plan, as it's very good.

I was sitting in 12K so had a good view of these before the curtains were closed - the bulkhead is curved in line with the back of the BP seats, and the PE seats curve away in the opposite direction, so you have a large area for your feet - enough to stretch them out fully I would say, even if you're tall.

Strangely, these seats were empty. As this is the bassinette position I expect they are blocked until 48 hours before departure - so if anyone is flying PE and worried about legroom I'd try to grab these at 48 hours out.

12A/K are great seats BTW, as the rear bulkhead curves around them, and the smaller BP cabin has a good feel to it. Only word of warning - it is very close to the middle PE bassinette, because of the way the bulkheads curve and the BP seats are staggered. I would check whether that bassinette is in use before selecting these seats (they are blocked until 48 hours anyway).

Amazing - no wonder the crew were carrying cheat-sheets. I noticed the service flow is now much more like a restaurant - i.e. crew take your order on an order pad, this is posted up in the galley while they prepare your food course by course.

I thought the food was excellent, and by the end I was absolutely stuffed. I wanted to try the pizza (I like the fact you can select your toppings from a list - and they've got a good range) but just couldn't manage.

Brilliant to hear it is possible to buy BP wines in Economy - that will make life much more bearable if upgrades don't come through!

As of Feb 13 several service changes went into effect, as a result of passenger feedback on the first couple of weeks of longhaul sectors. The feedback has been excellent about the food but the length of the service (especially in Y) has been commented on.

BP has very minor changes, mostly 'behind the scenes' stuff that is now preprepared to speed up the service. A couple of unpopular menu items were also replaced.

PE will move to a fullsize tray based service and pretakeoff drinks will be removed (and more pre-assembly behind the scenes).

Y has seen the most drastic changes - the premeal bar service with fresh snack (a fritatta) has been completely removed, and soup has been removed as a meal option. (And again many behind the scenes changes).

Hi nz_crew, thanks for the heads up.

Amazing to hear that soup was on the menu in Economy - and that there was a pre-meal snack with the drinks. I didn't get to experience it but somehow miss it anyway - a real shame this didn't work out, that is excellent.

Re BP - do you happen to know what the less popular menu items were? There were a number of things I wanted to try on future flights but didn't have a chance to on the one I took (incl. pizza, chefs tasting menu, the other salad (not caesar), and some of the side dishes).

And on a more general note re the service changes, I'm glad AirNZ aimed high on this and then reduced where needed rather than never trying these things out at all.

Zaco,

Chef's Selection Plate is gone from AKLLAX and the Turkey Sandwich is gone from LAXAKL. A few other minor changes to the J menu such as main salads now being pre-prepared so not available as appetizers and kumara being deleted from the menu.

I agree that aiming as high as possible was good and I'm glad you enjoyed the food!!

:eek: it must be my fault; I did not have the chef's selection from AKL, preferring a more robust meal; but did have it out of LAX as a light meal was the order of the day.:o (I had travelled from Aruba in first/business class on three consecutive meal flights before arriving at LAX :D).

Shame about the Salads, the ones I had as starters were good.

As for the removal of PE pre-flight drinks, that's real reduction in PE service I bet you it was the CC who wanted this, not the PAX.

with the removal of the pre takeoff drinks, the full tray based service & the negative reviews of the new seat I'm thinking I would have been better off flying direct from syd-lax on qantas or v Australia in economy and save the money,as air new Zealand seem to be getting rid of the things you pay extra for in PE compared to Y

I did indeed enjoy the food, infact enjoy probably isn't strong enough - stunned at how good it was is probably closer to the mark :D. I mentioned before, it was no different from an excellent bistro on the ground. Plating and presentation, taste, quantity, temperature, everything just like on the ground. It seems odd in hindsight but I think I just assumed food on a plane had to be somehow different, maybe because of the altitude or something. But that's obviously wrong. I especially noticed the difference as I had 3 more long hauls that week, NZ and SQ, and even the best dishes suddenly tasted like something I'd reheated in my microwave. The new service has raised the bar and it's very hard to go back.

Re the changes - it's definitely a shame about the salads, as surfty says. I also had this as my starter, as did a few around me. My guess is the salads were amongst the more time consuming items to prepare, hence the need to pre-plate, hence a need to decide whether main or starter, hence a decision to make it a main. All I can say is out of all the effort and work going on behind the scenes, the cesear salad as a starter is one of the things that remains in my mind as a standout part of the F&B offering and I can only encourage NZ to reintroduce this in the next round of tweaks, or at least let pax order the main as a starter.

It's a shame about the tasting plate - it was on my list to try, and I think there is room for high end dishes amongst the comfort food options.

Lack of pre-flight drinks in PE is really surprising - is this really the case? Is there really nothing (no champers, oj or water) or just no cocktails or something that had been added to the service?

Anyway just to step back again - the new inflight offering is absolutely world class. Shortly after my NZ 77W flight I had my first ever flights in SQ J (77W MAN-MUC-SIN and A380 SIN-MEL) and there was no comparison - while SQ service was excellent, NZ's is just as good and in terms of comfort, food and cabin ambience the new product is miles ahead.

One last point - having spoken with quite a few longhaul crew on other NZ flights, there seems to be a seam of negativity towards the changes - usually from crew who have been flying for many years, which is really surprising. If any of these crew happen to be reading, I think your argument goes something like - we have a great product already, we're very good at what we do, one of the first meal services took 5 hours because they want to make it like a restaurant which is mad, we'll lose our good and hard-earned reputation, and why change something that is working pefectly well. As a good customer of NZ who has experienced the new product, I can only say this worry is misplaced, perhaps even unhelpful, and I hope doesn't take any further hold. The new product is excellent, AirNZ are on to a winner - just as when Ralph Norris decided that flat beds not angled "lie flat" was the way to go, even though it wasn't the norm. It may not be obvious given the awards etc but the existing product is tired and needs to change. The new product is awesome- and it's NZ who are doing it, not Emirates or Qantas or Singapore or any of the others.

Ok well that's several posts and a note I've been meaning to write to Rob Fyfe (and still will) all rolled in to one, thanks again nz_crew for the info re the service changes and serfty let's start a campaign to bring back those salads ;)

I agree on this - for the price of premium economy, passengers are going to expect the typical champagne/juice/water offering upon boarding.

Zaco, given the amount of training, investment in new equipment, and increased spend on the F&B offering I'm thrilled you were that enthusiastic about it. Great news and I bet Rob Fyfe will be over the moon to hear that from you.

To clarify, yes pre-takeoff drinks have been removed from PE on the 773. I can understand why - 2 crew to serve 50 passengers in addition to doing all the pretakeoff galley prep and checks while 242 Y passengers are trooping through the cabin would be extremely difficult - but I agree it is a shame. (the bottle of water will still be preset at the seat).

The lack of preflight drinks is not a deal breaker but along with the contortion required to try to sleep in the new seats longhal I won't be rushing to travel in this cabin.

Thanks for the information nz_crew. We all appreciate it.

Could you provide further information about these very minor changes to the Business Premier service?