NZ*Trout

Yep, completely agree there. UA don't receive any international business from me, and only minimal domestic precisely because of this. Even when flights are virtually empty, they still insist on paid upgrades to E+ even for *Gs.

Previously I had held NZ up as a shining example on such matters when dealing with checkin and lounge agents... obviously that's something I can't do now that NZ seems hell bent on winning the hearts and minds of the bottom of the market.

There has been a pretty clear message here in FT (and many others I've talked to myself) that real Space+ is not just important, but the very reason many people where booking with NZ for short haul. Let's hope Bruce's next batch of changes to the changes actually addresses this...

Bruce Parton

Over the last few weeks since I have been back I have received much feedback about the number of Space plus seats and the degree to which 32 inch is seen as adequate.
I so appreciate the forthright views of this forum and the ability that it gives us to review what we have got right and what needs to be changed. I have also written to 9000 HVCs who have flown the Tasman or Pacific Islands to source their views on the new product.

The vast majority of the feedback related to the value of additional legroom when travelling on an A320. Our previous Space+ product provided industry leading seat pitch on the Tasman and frequent flyers felt this provided a good reason to prefer Air New Zealand over other airlines. While there was a real understanding and appreciation for the new Seats to Suit products, a strong majority felt that additional legroom was as an important feature and that the current size of our premium seating zone meant late booking customers paying higher fares could miss out on seating in this zone. This has become more of an issue as the loads have filled up due to the success of the new product


We’re keen to ensure we have the right mix of product onboard for our HVCs and that there is inherent fairness in the way in which the product can be accessed and therefore we will be making a slight change to the seating configuration of our A320 to provide a larger zone of seats with increased legroom.


This zone, currently with 18 seats primarily at 32” pitch, will now increase to 21 seats at 34-35” seat pitch and 18 seats at 33” seat pitch (previously Space plus had 38 seats) . The total number of seats on the A320 will decrease from 171 to 168 to enable this to occur with the removal of a row on the left hand side . Non premium seats will remain at the standard 30” seat pitch which has been the case since the A320 was first introduced.


Pre-seating access into this zone will be for Gold Elite, Gold and Koru Club members and accompanying guests purchasing Works (what was previously standard economy) or Works Deluxe fares. The number of seats available means they will almost always be available for these customers, even for late bookings. Members booking Seat or Seat + Bag fares, will be able to have access to this zone at check-in (note this is not at the time of the booking which the Works and Works deluxe will gain) .


This reconfiguration change requires recertification of the aircraft and we expect to commence and complete changes in the first few months of 2011.

I believe that the provision of this increased number of seats and the extra pitch in those seats will alleviate the vast majority of the concerns that we have discussed.

Thanks again for all of the feedback and views expressed - Providing a system which meets everyones needs and allows us to stay flying the Tasman is the key objective and I think this will take us closer to that objective

I will source a manual seat map for those who are interested and provide details shortly

I would appreciate it if the Flyertalk team could keep this between this forum as it will not be formally announced until tomorrow

Cheers Bruce

Bruce Parton

Hi Brent - I have just posted some changes to Space plus etc that will address your issues I belive

Ta B

Bruce Parton

Hi NZ Trout

I have just posted some changes that I think will cover off your concerns

As an aside the issue for us is that with a small market like NZ where there are not many people flying but customers naturally want frequency you have to cater for both ends of the market
The business end is important because of flow on bookings and the frequency but there is not enough people nor is it growing which drives you to having business class only on routes where it is valued

Likewsie you have tyo have a strong leisure product in order to get the volume that makes your bsuiness work

Its a tough trick but I feel we are nearly there now with changes you will see a few minutes ago

Cheers B

Sydfly

Hi Bruce,

That's disappointing to hear that you are not considering *G customers to be able to request those space+ seats at time of booking. That certainly won't convince me to choose NZ when I fly across the Tasman.

If you did it because *G don't make up a large number of your HVC, then why don't you extend the benefit for those few?

And if you say that there would be too many *G customers, then I'm especially surprised because you obviously are happy to loose that business in the future. Either way, I don't see the logic behind this decision!

Freeth

Have just returned from a quick trip to the States which included 3 domestic flights on UA. Was surprised to be seated in E+ on each occasion without having to pay for it, as was my non status friend (both on same PNR). All flights were full and there appeared to be plenty of UA's own elites on each flight based on the queues using red carpet during boarding. (As a side note, it was pleasing to see gate staff strictly enforcing boarding process, ie first class & status pax first, then zones, in times past it has always been a free for all scramble to see who can get on board first and fill the overhead lockers with their ridiculously oversized roller bags)

I had assumed the upgrades were as a result of my *G status but is that not the case? I certainly wasn't traveling on full flexi fares, so it couldn't have been based on the fare class.

I have always avoided using UA whenever possible for my domestic travel in USA due to previous poor service and their tired fleet, but must admit the E+ upgrades have made them a lot more attractive option for my next trip.

NZ*Trout

Great! I've had plum seats with all NA carriers from time to time - but generally only when I check-in late. I.e. I've been seated there out of necessity.

Top of climb

My understanding is that non-UA/CO elites do not have access to E+ on UA (and I don't think that's changed recently, at least not judging by the ecstasy on the CO board when the merger closed and they found themselves with access to E+ on UA). Any seats not snapped up by their elite members UA put on sale to the general public. Presumably there is some sort of overflow management system when they sell every seat on the plane but people are not upbuying to E+, in which case they might release E+ to *G and you got lucky?

trooper

Allow me to be petty for just a moment....(had a long,tiring week..)

I wouldn't be all that concerned if the reason for excluding other *Golds from Space + was something along the lines of.. "your airline gives nothing extra to OUR elites.. so why the heck should we give anything to you?"

...After all.. I can't say I've seen a campaign by UA elites to get E+ access for other *Golds.....

AgentK

+1

Fact is the other airlines are not really giving away stuff freely to other airline's *G travelers:

- LH doesn't provide access to even the front eco cabin on longhaul flights to *G customers, but just to their own Senators (LH G)

- UA/CO don't provide access to their Y+ to other *G (unless they really, really, really have to because of the plane being oversold)

- SG don't even let other *G customers into the proper lounges in Changi - you'd have to use a showerless *G-lounge

...any more examples? Those are just ones that I could come up with in 60 seconds thinking time...

So - from that perspective I have to say that I like an approach to actually provide an advantage to NZ G or GE customers, in the current * environment it makes perfect sense to me. I would be pretty much pissed if a LH Senator would get the last Space+ seat instead of me.

I'm not necessarily against other *G getting access to Space+ btw. But I'm very happy with an approach of NZ GE/G and paid Koru members on W/WD fares having preferred access to it and any others (def. on lower fares) from 24hrs before flight or at checkin. Makes perfect sense to me.

kiwibigdave

My initial reaction is this being a fairly balanced outcome; HVC get the extra space, as long as they're maintaining at least a semblance of "HV". The potential conflict is the HVC who says "I don't need Works; I get all the land-side benefits I need from status, and can easily go 3 hours without a movie or a snack." To be sure of access to Space+ those people now need to make a deliberate choice to buy up to Works. OTOH, many of those people would traditionally have made buy-up decisions anyway (in the pursuit of points / status), so the decision process should probably not be new.

Again, I think this is a fair balance, when you consider *G reciprocity. In addition, I wonder about the "HV" of people with the ability to choose their TT carrier, who can reach *G, but who aren't using the Airpoints programme. If you're a regular TT flyer deliberately chosing another *G FF programme for other reasons, and you really value Space +, then back your "HV" with a few extra $ and buy a KC membership. However, if you're getting *G status with BIS on another *G carrier, but also do a bit of TT flying, I can appreciate the problem. But then we come back to NZs business case dilemma; exactly how many people are affected in that scenario? (And for those I also suggest the same challenge; in a market that doesn't really provide you a free choice, if you really value Space + then back yourself with a KC membership.)

All in all, for the first time in this journey I'm starting to side with Bruce.

bce1

Thank you Bruce.

My main issue was the loss of the 34-35in pitch and access to it (as a frequent late booker!!) and your changes fix that.

That said I still think NZ*GE should be allowed access to Space + on a seat or bag only - by virtue of their demonstated loyalty to Air NZ - as opposed to Koru which is a purchased product, but I also think what you have done is reasonable.

It wont please everyone, but it gives me back what I want on TT flights - a business class meal was nice, but its really its about having a bit of space to stretch and do some work.

And looking forward to the new long-haul premium product ! Especially the Sky chef in BP!

Thanks.

Craig

MikeAKL

+1. Could not agree more.

Kiwi Flyer

Thanks Bruce for listening to the feedback and making changes on A320. Will 767 also be getting space+ restored? I just flew 767 for the first time since the reconfig and it was almost as uncomfortable as the A320.

Incidentally the flight was full and some works deluxe pax missed out on getting an empty middle seat. I hope they got some compensation for not getting what they'd paid for.

DownUnderFlyer

Is the empty middle seat a published Works Deluxe benefit? Otherwise it will be difficult to claim compensation.