The new rule book is here! The new rule book is here! [merged]
Jan 9, 2009, 11:16 am
#46
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: A3/Gold, BA/Gold + other less precious metals
Posts: 2,641
These changes basically indicate that AF has decided to fully pursue the BA model: i.e. go for the premium passengers and forget about the rest. We will see how this works out for them in the next few years. Bearing in mind (1) whether this strategy has worked for BA is highly debatable; (2) whichever way you look at it, Paris is NOT London when it comes to sheer volumes of business O-D traffic (which is essentially what is being targeted); etc.
Jan 9, 2009, 11:26 am
#47
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Programs: FB Plat for Life, HHonors Gold
Posts: 195
To add insult to injury - am I right in assuming that we now have to pay 15% more miles for an award ticket to access the bucket which was until now reserved for elites as an unpublished - and free - benefit?
Jan 9, 2009, 11:28 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Jan 9, 2009, 11:29 am
#49
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold, BD Gold (RIP), TK Elite, HH Gold, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold, IC RA, Hertz 5*
Posts: 589
Well I shall definitely be writing an angry email/letter to FB this weekend. This is absolutely shocking devaluation of the programme. This is definitely making me evaluate dropping AFKL altogether, I'm sure OW or *A would gladly take the 60-70 flights I put towards ST last year. I like the idea of being Top Tier with every alliance, but there seems to be less and less point in having any status with ST!
Jan 9, 2009, 11:30 am
#50
Join Date: May 2005
Location: EUR
Programs: FB Plat./BA Gold (thanks BD)/A3 *Gold/HH Diamond/A Club Gold
Posts: 918
And to think that my company (a large multinational Pharmaceutical - i.e. a large part of AF's revenue) recently issued a new Travel Policy.
Myself and a few colleagues had found a few loopholes to allow us to continue chasing status with AF - after all, only two years to go until Life, I thought.
Now, economic crisis or no economic crisis, AF se f****e de nos geules and is telling us that our efforts to try and fly with them (instead of generally cheaper competitors) are not appreciated at all.
Basically they are saying not to bother trying to fly with them!
Well, I won't.
Myself and a few colleagues had found a few loopholes to allow us to continue chasing status with AF - after all, only two years to go until Life, I thought.
Now, economic crisis or no economic crisis, AF se f****e de nos geules and is telling us that our efforts to try and fly with them (instead of generally cheaper competitors) are not appreciated at all.
Basically they are saying not to bother trying to fly with them!
Well, I won't.
Jan 9, 2009, 11:57 am
#51
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Er is een duidelijker verband tussen het aantal te sparen Miles, het tickettarief en de ticketvoorwaarden. Zo wordt het Flying Blue-aanbod eerlijker.
• Bijvoorbeeld: een full fare Economy Class ticket biedt zeer flexibele reisvoorwaarden (wijzigen van het ticket toegestaan). Daar staat het verdienen van het volle aantal Award Miles tegenover, dus 100 procent van de afgelegde afstand.
• Bij een Economy Class ticket, geboekt tegen een lager tarief en minder flexibelere ticketvoorwaarden (zoals een toeslag voor het wijzigen van het ticket), kunnen deelnemers tussen de 25 en 75 procent van de afgelegde afstand aan Award Miles sparen.
• Bijvoorbeeld: een full fare Economy Class ticket biedt zeer flexibele reisvoorwaarden (wijzigen van het ticket toegestaan). Daar staat het verdienen van het volle aantal Award Miles tegenover, dus 100 procent van de afgelegde afstand.
• Bij een Economy Class ticket, geboekt tegen een lager tarief en minder flexibelere ticketvoorwaarden (zoals een toeslag voor het wijzigen van het ticket), kunnen deelnemers tussen de 25 en 75 procent van de afgelegde afstand aan Award Miles sparen.
Jan 9, 2009, 11:58 am
#52
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
These changes basically indicate that AF has decided to fully pursue the BA model: i.e. go for the premium passengers and forget about the rest. We will see how this works out for them in the next few years. Bearing in mind (1) whether this strategy has worked for BA is highly debatable; (2) whichever way you look at it, Paris is NOT London when it comes to sheer volumes of business O-D traffic (which is essentially what is being targeted); etc.
Jan 9, 2009, 12:01 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 279
Even if you book now (i.e. before the April 1 changes are said to take effect), the miles requirement for Europe-Asia awards in C have increased from 60K miles O/W to 80K miles O/W for travel booked for October 25 and onwards. So it seems that AFKL is not waiting for April changes to raise the miles requirement on new award bookings.
Jan 9, 2009, 12:02 pm
#54
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
When is AF-KL also going to a 3-tier pricing award chart implementation (3 price levels for coach seats and 3 price levels for business seats on every given sector) like DL-NW has in play?
Jan 9, 2009, 12:11 pm
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reality, Freedom • Fly Tarom •
Programs: AF FB Platinum For Life (F+ Rouge Vintage®) / Hertz President's Circle / SNCF Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 10,077
Sigh.
Well, F+/FB has never really been very customer-friendly, though F+ (and FB at the very beginning, perhaps) had a few nice enough features.
Changes such as these were feared (and expected, given some of the changes in FF programs of other large carriers), but what is really pitiful is their feeble attempt to "sell" the new program restrictions as enhancements ... the one that makes me laugh the most is the "Primes Spéciales Elite", where you can spend 115% of your miles for the same exact thing as you got before at 100%. The extra legroom "garantie gratuite" for elites is another beauty ... they do seem to take their customers for fools.
If they were truly clever, I would hope to see some mileage promos in the future, along the lines of Y fares below K earning 100% miles on long haul flights between such and such dates .... they are going to be needing to fill up seats.
Well, F+/FB has never really been very customer-friendly, though F+ (and FB at the very beginning, perhaps) had a few nice enough features.
Changes such as these were feared (and expected, given some of the changes in FF programs of other large carriers), but what is really pitiful is their feeble attempt to "sell" the new program restrictions as enhancements ... the one that makes me laugh the most is the "Primes Spéciales Elite", where you can spend 115% of your miles for the same exact thing as you got before at 100%. The extra legroom "garantie gratuite" for elites is another beauty ... they do seem to take their customers for fools.
If they were truly clever, I would hope to see some mileage promos in the future, along the lines of Y fares below K earning 100% miles on long haul flights between such and such dates .... they are going to be needing to fill up seats.
Jan 9, 2009, 12:52 pm
#56
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: AMS
Programs: LH FTL, HH ♢, HGP P, Accor P
Posts: 840
Funny enough, when booking a flight after April 1, the online booking system still gives you the old mileages. I wonder whether if booked now, they will change it when you actually fly.....
Jan 9, 2009, 1:43 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Silver, Vietnam Airlines Lotusmiles Platinum
Posts: 2,375
Well, as a former FB elite having been a member of FD almost since inception, and one who flew only for pleasure!, I havent been on a KLM/AF or even Skyteam Plane since January 2008.
As almost all my travel since has been in Europe I have flown with that awful flying bus, Ryanair : Admittedly not 1 of my tickets has been over £10 roundtrip (taxes included).
I havent actually missed KLM at all really, and see no point in even continuing my membership of FB.
Hope these changes are good for AF-KL, but I do wonder !
As almost all my travel since has been in Europe I have flown with that awful flying bus, Ryanair : Admittedly not 1 of my tickets has been over £10 roundtrip (taxes included).
I havent actually missed KLM at all really, and see no point in even continuing my membership of FB.
Hope these changes are good for AF-KL, but I do wonder !
Jan 9, 2009, 1:45 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Near Lichfield, UK
Programs: BMI DC Gold, BA Gold, LH SEN, Priority Club Platinum, Nectar purple
Posts: 949
I'm gutted. I have just two more years to reach Plat for life, having spent the last two years taking inconvenient flights to keep up my points earning as most of my projects have been in Europe.
Who is the best carrier to approach for a status match ?
Who is the best carrier to approach for a status match ?
Jan 9, 2009, 2:09 pm
#59
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,281
Horrible!
Wow.. FB is really getting from bad to worst, I thought that they started realizing that we customers were valuable income for them.. but it seems i am totally wrong.
By having these separate earnings in economy is really one of the last straw.. though it could be difficult for me when travel is allowed again from my company since they only book us on KLM.. or AF (big fat commission) they maybe getting.
But I will seriously think of moving over to either *A or OW if they don't change. They do offer much better product and recognition compared to the FB prog. Luckily I can use this year to choose.. since I am at the highest status with all 3 alliance.. though changing from the Amex FB to another could be difficult.. if I am lucky might even change that to the Visa card from LH which is more acceptable in Europe compared to Amex.
I will surely drop my protest to the management.. am wondering who decided all this.. especially in such economic times.. they must love playing with fire
will never understand the people behind FB..
By having these separate earnings in economy is really one of the last straw.. though it could be difficult for me when travel is allowed again from my company since they only book us on KLM.. or AF (big fat commission) they maybe getting.
But I will seriously think of moving over to either *A or OW if they don't change. They do offer much better product and recognition compared to the FB prog. Luckily I can use this year to choose.. since I am at the highest status with all 3 alliance.. though changing from the Amex FB to another could be difficult.. if I am lucky might even change that to the Visa card from LH which is more acceptable in Europe compared to Amex.
I will surely drop my protest to the management.. am wondering who decided all this.. especially in such economic times.. they must love playing with fire
will never understand the people behind FB..
Jan 9, 2009, 2:55 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Leeds ,Yorks UK
Programs: KLM Flying Blue Platinum for Life.. BA Gold , oh and some other shiny bits of plastic ...
Posts: 4,238
They have finally lost the plot !
Will the last frequent flyer out of the lounges please turn the lights finally off ..