Gold Trumps Platinum if you're from Flying Blue
Jan 25, 2006, 9:58 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Gold Trumps Platinum if you're from Flying Blue
Just returned from a transatlantic flight on a KL coded ticket operated by NW. KL & NW "share" the North Atlantic market and pool the profits. Due to this agreement, KL has also sacrificed quite a number of routes to NW. Unfortunately, they also have sacrificed the benefits of belonging to a frequent flyer program to NW. KL has sacrificed us, the loyal customer.
Flight was oversold and more than full. Boarding a mess with last minute shuffling and names being called forward: 1 NW Worldperks Platinum and 5 NW Worldperks Gold were upgraded to Business Class (yes, I asked). My FB Platinum didn't mean diddly squat. Not only did Skyteam Golds go before (and in my case, instead of Platinum) but my reserved seat (just in front of the blocked crew rest area, better for quiet sleep) was now in front of a crew rest area that had been given to a mother with three small but very, very noisy and uncontrollable children.
Bad flight, bad, bad flight. Absolutely no reason for me to have chosen KL/NW. Sorry I did. Would have definitely been better to choose another airline which would have given me possibly the same but likely better service for a lower cost.
Value to my travel experience from Flying Blue: ZERO.
Flight was oversold and more than full. Boarding a mess with last minute shuffling and names being called forward: 1 NW Worldperks Platinum and 5 NW Worldperks Gold were upgraded to Business Class (yes, I asked). My FB Platinum didn't mean diddly squat. Not only did Skyteam Golds go before (and in my case, instead of Platinum) but my reserved seat (just in front of the blocked crew rest area, better for quiet sleep) was now in front of a crew rest area that had been given to a mother with three small but very, very noisy and uncontrollable children.
Bad flight, bad, bad flight. Absolutely no reason for me to have chosen KL/NW. Sorry I did. Would have definitely been better to choose another airline which would have given me possibly the same but likely better service for a lower cost.
Value to my travel experience from Flying Blue: ZERO.
Jan 25, 2006, 10:18 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
Well, first of all, op-ups are never guaranteed. If you want a business class seat, either pay for the applicable fare - or buy an upgradeable fare and use your miles.
Also, if those golds were flying on Y/B fares eligible for upgrades, and you were not, this might have been the reason why they got upgraded, and you did not.
Feel free to rant about this - but you will see the same thing happen on other airline, especially if other passengers are travelling on a more expensive ticket.
Also, if those golds were flying on Y/B fares eligible for upgrades, and you were not, this might have been the reason why they got upgraded, and you did not.
Feel free to rant about this - but you will see the same thing happen on other airline, especially if other passengers are travelling on a more expensive ticket.
Jan 25, 2006, 10:35 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Originally Posted by Aviatrix
Also... hasn't it always been the case that airlines look after their own Elites before their partner airlines' Elites?
Jan 25, 2006, 10:39 am
#5
Suspended
Join Date: May 2001
Location: DUS
Posts: 4,004
I do not see why KLM has sacrified routes to NW.
The current status quo guarantees a perfect utilisation of aircraft and is generating lots of cash for both players. It is certainly unfortunate when the flight is on NW metal, but the upgrade rules have never been revealed by KLM/NW, so it is just speculation at this point whether they prefer a NW Gold over a CSA Plat or KLM Silver...
It is certainly an unfortunate event and the feeling of being overlooked despite KLM top status is also not very reassuring to stay with KLM, but based on my experience LH is lightyears ahead in terms of making sure that the top status flyers will receive operational upgrades first.
It changed a bit lately, but on KLM , especially with those unfriendly gate supervisors, it is more like a roulette...
The current status quo guarantees a perfect utilisation of aircraft and is generating lots of cash for both players. It is certainly unfortunate when the flight is on NW metal, but the upgrade rules have never been revealed by KLM/NW, so it is just speculation at this point whether they prefer a NW Gold over a CSA Plat or KLM Silver...
It is certainly an unfortunate event and the feeling of being overlooked despite KLM top status is also not very reassuring to stay with KLM, but based on my experience LH is lightyears ahead in terms of making sure that the top status flyers will receive operational upgrades first.
It changed a bit lately, but on KLM , especially with those unfriendly gate supervisors, it is more like a roulette...
Jan 25, 2006, 10:40 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: NW Plat, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 477
How many of the transatlantic routes are really NWA's? I thought they only had the flights to/from Boston, Seattle, Minneapolis, and Detroit? Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought KLM operated a decent number of their own (Chicago, JFK, SFO, etc).
I agree with airlines honoring their own elites first-seems to happen that way. Being NW Plat really only gets me early boarding once in a while, and use of Elite check in line, on KLM. Otherwise they dont seem to recognize my status much. Esp when it comes to seating- seems the higher my status on NW climbed, the farther back in the plane KLM would seat me!
I agree with airlines honoring their own elites first-seems to happen that way. Being NW Plat really only gets me early boarding once in a while, and use of Elite check in line, on KLM. Otherwise they dont seem to recognize my status much. Esp when it comes to seating- seems the higher my status on NW climbed, the farther back in the plane KLM would seat me!
Jan 25, 2006, 10:42 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Originally Posted by rcs85551
Well, first of all, op-ups are never guaranteed. If you want a business class seat, either pay for the applicable fare - or buy an upgradeable fare and use your miles.
Also, if those golds were flying on Y/B fares eligible for upgrades, and you were not, this might have been the reason why they got upgraded, and you did not.
Feel free to rant about this - but you will see the same thing happen on other airline, especially if other passengers are travelling on a more expensive ticket.
Also, if those golds were flying on Y/B fares eligible for upgrades, and you were not, this might have been the reason why they got upgraded, and you did not.
Feel free to rant about this - but you will see the same thing happen on other airline, especially if other passengers are travelling on a more expensive ticket.
Buying upgradeable fares and using miles is no longer an option given the new FB restrictions on upgradeable fares which mean that the upgradeable fare is as expensive or more than a business ticket...
The impact of the ticket price vs. the tier in the loyalty program is not as clear cut as you state. Even our straight question to AF's Mr. Babu did not get a serious answer....
Jan 25, 2006, 10:45 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
Posts: 31,962
Originally Posted by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM
Definitely. And my point is that since KLM has decided to "merge" their business with NW on North Atlantic we are really flying "KL+NW". But only the NW members are getting the operational benefits. Every time KL gives yet another destination to NW, the operational value of FB to those forced to use AMS and travel North Atlantic goes to zero.
Jan 25, 2006, 12:22 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Programs: Shiny ones
Posts: 288
Other routes
Originally Posted by AcnNWAPlatinum
How many of the transatlantic routes are really NWA's? I thought they only had the flights to/from Boston, Seattle, Minneapolis, and Detroit?
Jan 25, 2006, 2:29 pm
#13
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 174
I had KL to AMS, then CO to EWR and MCO. Missed the CO flight out of AMS, got rebooked on the NW flight to DTW. I got upgraded to biz, even if coach was not full.
NW always treats me very good (much better than KL does), and I've been upgraded on domestic flights as I had been a WP FF. Long before i got my silver card, I was upgraded by a nice gate agent even without showing her my card or accountstatement, and my reservation did not reflect my status either. I bet one would never see that on KL.
On the other hand, to friends were upgraded on the 332 flight AMS-EWR, no status, not overbooked flight. It happens, it just depends on the timing, who you are and if you have a lucky day.
NW always treats me very good (much better than KL does), and I've been upgraded on domestic flights as I had been a WP FF. Long before i got my silver card, I was upgraded by a nice gate agent even without showing her my card or accountstatement, and my reservation did not reflect my status either. I bet one would never see that on KL.
On the other hand, to friends were upgraded on the 332 flight AMS-EWR, no status, not overbooked flight. It happens, it just depends on the timing, who you are and if you have a lucky day.
Jan 25, 2006, 4:59 pm
#14
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Co. Durham, UK
Posts: 217
mem-ams op up on NW.
My partner and I, both KL PE's ,were joint recipients of an op-up on a NW overbooked MEM - AMS flight early Dec. as was a Dutch guy who, as we boarded was asking GA if any upgrades were available.
Exraf
Exraf
Jan 26, 2006, 2:26 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cheltenham
Programs: KLM Plat for Life , BA Gold, HH Silver, (Other half Diamond), IHG Gold
Posts: 2,395
Op Ups in my experience are very dependable on the staff on the day. As PE I have seen on a number of occasions people with not even a blue card being op upped when there are clearly PEs in Y on KLM. The last were two young backpacker females sat behind us in C op upped at the last moment who had no FF status at all.
