Changed Award Ticket Time - Rights

Old Jun 14, 2024, 10:26 am
  #1  
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Changed Award Ticket Time - Rights

Hi all, hoping to get some help here and understand my options. I was booked on AF1 from JFK to CDG on July 4 connecting to VIE landing in VIE at 9:15AM on July 5. AF canceled AF1 on July 4, and all provided option get me to Vienna >2 hours later. What are my rights in this situation? The ticket was booked with miles, if that makes a difference.
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Old Jun 14, 2024, 11:26 am
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Originally Posted by ceflyer
What are my rights in this situation? The ticket was booked with miles, if that makes a difference.
You can call them and ask if any other rebooking options are available, but given that you're only arriving 2 hours later (with no details of how much earlier, if at all, you are required to leave), this may already be the best available option.

As you have been informed more than 2 weeks prior to departure, you are not entitled to compensation under EC261/2004.
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Old Jun 14, 2024, 11:30 am
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Got it. They currently have me landing 10 hours later, my post was unclear, and the flight is leaving 5 hours later.
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Old Jun 14, 2024, 12:58 pm
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Still not grounds for compensation if it the best possibility available.

Do a bit of research and if you can find a better connection with seats available, call up and ask to be put on it.
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Old Jun 14, 2024, 1:04 pm
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Thank you. I dont need compensation, understood its >14 days out. Do you know if they would book me on another airline that has a flight that would get me there in time?
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Old Jun 14, 2024, 1:13 pm
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DL probably has a higher chance than VS. I don't have direct experience so not sure how big your chances are. By all means ask for it. Anything outside SkyTeam will almost certainly be a non-starter.
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Old Jun 15, 2024, 7:07 am
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Originally Posted by ceflyer
Do you know if they would book me on another airline that has a flight that would get me there in time?
Out of alliance - absolutely not.

If you find another Skyteam routing and it has an award seat available then it should not be a problem to move you. Check what's currently available on the Flying Blue booking tool (or Skymiles if that's what you booked with) for that day, and if you find a more appealing itinerary, call and ask to be moved to that due to your cancellation.
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Old Jun 15, 2024, 8:29 am
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Originally Posted by ceflyer
Thank you. I dont need compensation, understood its >14 days out. Do you know if they would book me on another airline that has a flight that would get me there in time?
that will only be made when you are within the 14 day timeframe prior to departure - most likely when it happens on the flight day.

I once missed a connection in AMS in the evening - was rebooked on the next available KL flight to BUD. However that flight did arrive in BUD too late for me to catch a connecting flight to VIE and NRT (booked on another ticket). KL would have arrived 20 minutes prior to departure of my OS flight to VIE - too late and too risky - with some discussion they rebooked us to AMS-VIE-BUD on OS arriving in BUD 20 minutes prior to the proposed KL flight. But we were on the same OS plane from VIE to BUD that made a turnaround in BUD.
They just made it because the EU rules force them to rebook on the next available flight and that happened to be the connection via VIE.
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Old Jun 15, 2024, 11:35 am
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Originally Posted by f0zzyNUE
that will only be made when you are within the 14 day timeframe prior to departure - most likely when it happens on the flight day.

I once missed a connection in AMS in the evening - was rebooked on the next available KL flight to BUD. However that flight did arrive in BUD too late for me to catch a connecting flight to VIE and NRT (booked on another ticket). KL would have arrived 20 minutes prior to departure of my OS flight to VIE - too late and too risky - with some discussion they rebooked us to AMS-VIE-BUD on OS arriving in BUD 20 minutes prior to the proposed KL flight. But we were on the same OS plane from VIE to BUD that made a turnaround in BUD.
They just made it because the EU rules force them to rebook on the next available flight and that happened to be the connection via VIE.
Pfw. Narrow escape. Particularly with that BUD-VIE-NRT self-connection in the balance....again proof it is so much better to plan very lavish connection times when self-connections, and avoiding complex-complex flight self- connections (i.e. no multiple segments in the first one that always give additional risk).
As for OP, I guess all has been said - see indeed if you can find award space yourself in the alliance that works better, and with luck they may grant that...
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Old Jun 16, 2024, 3:24 am
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Originally Posted by atflyer
Pfw. Narrow escape. Particularly with that BUD-VIE-NRT self-connection in the balance....again proof it is so much better to plan very lavish connection times when self-connections, and avoiding complex-complex flight self- connections (i.e. no multiple segments in the first one that always give additional risk).
well we should have arrived in BUD early in the evening - the flight on separate ticket was scheduled from BUD at 11:20 in the morning next day - usually plenty of time for a connection. I did not take into account that it was impossible to get from AMS to BUD before 11:00 on alternative flights next day.
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Old Jun 16, 2024, 6:35 am
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It seems you were on AF1/AF1308 leaving 16:30 arriving 09:15.

They should put you on AF3/AF1138 arriving 11:35. There is also a possible routing via AMS on DL departing 16:35 arriving 08:35 with a50min connection in AMS.

Even if there is award space, they should force a seat as it is their own cancellation.
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Old Jun 16, 2024, 8:12 am
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Originally Posted by brunos
Even if there is award space, they should force a seat as it is their own cancellation.
These kind of statements may be misinterpreted as giving the OP rights that they don't really have (the title of the thread is "rights")

Clearly, when a flight is cancelled there won't be enough spaces on any other individual flight operating that day to accommodate everybody affected by the cancellation.
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Old Jun 16, 2024, 11:15 am
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Originally Posted by brunos
It seems you were on AF1/AF1308 leaving 16:30 arriving 09:15.

They should put you on AF3/AF1138 arriving 11:35. There is also a possible routing via AMS on DL departing 16:35 arriving 08:35 with a50min connection in AMS.

Even if there is award space, they should force a seat as it is their own cancellation.
Thank you, this is what Im going to ask for
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Old Jun 16, 2024, 8:16 pm
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Originally Posted by ceflyer
Thank you, this is what Im going to ask for
If your flight is canceled more than 14 days before departure, you have the right to either a rerouting or a refund. While I won't debate the fairness of this policy, in practice, FB tends to resist rebooking you on a flight of your choice unless there is award space available, particularly if it's outside the 14-day window. They seem to prefer issuing refunds rather than rebook you into revenue seats.

Even within the 14-day period, rebooking into revenue seats can be challenging. It's somewhat easier if the alternate flights are operated by AFKL, harder with JV/SkyTeam partners, and almost impossible with interline partners. Surprisingly, even during day-of disruptions (IRROPs), rebooking isn't always on the first available flight. You might find revenue seats, but AFKL may not place you on those. In my experience, AFKL only rebooks into revenue seats during IRROPs if they are AFKL-operated flights or JV partners to the US. Rebooking to SkyTeam partners often requires some discussion, and having status with AFKL seems to help. For interline partners, it's nearly always a no-go; I've only ever had that happen once personally when there were no seats available on any airline, except an interline partner, for more than three days.

I believe, this happens because FB-issued tickets aren't treated the same as AFKL-issued tickets; only FB can handle those tickets unless during IRROPs, sort of like travel agent tickets. Therefore, when trying to rebook, you'll typically need to contact FB agents (unless you have access to PSL/TA), who only look at redemption inventory. This makes it harder to rebook into revenue seats because I think FB agents can't really book into those. At least, this is my understanding of the situation based on my experience.
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Old Jun 17, 2024, 12:58 am
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Originally Posted by sehgalanuj
I believe, this happens because FB-issued tickets aren't treated the same as AFKL-issued tickets; only FB can handle those tickets unless during IRROPs, sort of like travel agent tickets. Therefore, when trying to rebook, you'll typically need to contact FB agents (unless you have access to PSL/TA), who only look at redemption inventory. This makes it harder to rebook into revenue seats because I think FB agents can't really book into those. At least, this is my understanding of the situation based on my experience.
in my above case we had two award tickets and one cheap revenue ticket. the guy in the KL lounge in Amsterdam tried hard to convince us that it is not possible to rebook on OS - in the end he made one call and we were rebooked on KL AMS-VIE and OS VIE-BUD (not my suggested OS AMS-VIE-BUD itinerary). anyway the EU regulation says with article 8 - 1 b that you can choose "re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity" and that does not rule out other airlines/alliances. Only after I had quoted this from the passenger rights he was willing to consider the OS option.

Aticle 8 Right to reimbursement or re-routing1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.

3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.
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