AF and KL order (more) A350 (joint order)
 

In Dutch: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieu...0-airbus-a350s

For KL, the A350 will replace the A330 and B772.
Edit: for AF as well

https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-...m-airbus-a350/
In english too

This is good news!

I am now wondering if the B772 are really going into retrofit soon or not? maybe not all of them!

Replacing the A330 and B772 doesn't necessarily mean the first ones in the door will be displacing those older frames. Or they could displace the A330s first, then use the A350s for growth before finally retiring the 772s as the last frames come in.

Out of those the 772 is obviously larger from the A330, though pretty much in line with the current 359. So in terms of capacity those would be easy to swap. From a perspective of age all 772's and 332's are roughly the same (~22 years old), however, the A330's have received cabin upgrades not that long ago. The 772's have not and are on the brink of falling apart (perhaps a bit of an aggregation, but the A330's are definitely much newer).

While it is anybody's guess what AF will do, I can imagine that they would not want to retrofit the 772's for <4 years of additional service. Additionally keeping in mind that AF is due to receive new A350's from their previous order this year, I would not be surprised if they start phasing out the 772's real soon. I'd expect the A330's to be around for a bit longer as they have much more recent interior that they can probably stretch for a few more years. It won't be a competitive product but AF has plenty of routes where there is little (to no) competition that these aircraft can (and are) used.

A330s at KL and AF have both gotten refits recently, the 777-200 at KL are supposed to be retrofitted over the next year or so but nothing announced for AFs 777-200.

I think that gives us a general idea of how they could proceed, replace AF’s old birds, then A330s etc.
These don’t necessarily have to be one for one replacements either. A new A350 at KL could displace a 787 which would in turn replace the A330. There is no mention of the type either so it could be a mix of -900 and -1000.

The big head scratcher for me are the 10 orphaned 787 at AF. With current orders AF’s lineup is A220-300, 787-9, A350-900. But the dreamliner fleet is very small, they are very useful for smaller secondary routes where too much capacity dumping isn’t feasible. Think current A330 routes, secondary Canada, USA, Africa etc. I wonder if we will see a small topup order from AF down the road for 5-10 more dreamliners, which would also keep the door open for a 777X order.

At this rate AF might operate even more A350 than 777!

don't forget they have 13 siblings at KLM, as well as 9 bigger siblings! (787-10)

Fair maintenance wise but when you think of even just pilot ratings alone, if the 777 fleet keeps on shrinking then it’ll be less and less compelling to have so few Boeing rated pilots and have them current on two types at the same time.

First AF 787 received December 2016, so maybe looking at a refit towards 2026 or so? Would it make some sense to move the Dreamliners over to KLM at that point and replace them with A350s at AF?

wasnt the original plan to send all dreamliners to KL and AF would have the new airbus planes ?

I know there was a plan that had both airlines operating both types, but I'm not sure if that was the original plan. Then they obviously decided against that before KLM had taken any A350s, but left the already delivered 787s at AF while swapping the remaining order book IIRC.

Isn't the "Optimise 328 Sieges" the annouced cabin upgrade of the rest of the 777-200 fleet?
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35130445-post24.html

And, the deliveries from this order are planned for 2026 through 2030.

I’ll admit I completely forgot about these, you’re right. That being said AF’s fleet is the one thats on the older side so will probably still be first in line for replacement.

It’s quite refreshing to have so much investment going on in the fleet these days, feels like no costs have been spared unlike in the past where it was patchwork after patchwork.

Well apparently Ben Smith is making me eat my words.

https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-se...-smith-1981526

Recapped from another forum, someone here with access to les echos might be able to confirm but:

• Expectation that the Russian airspace closure will last at least for the midterm which influenced the decision (A350 better than 787 on 12 to 14 hour sectors).
• 787-9 will exit AF fleet by 2030. Some are speculating these will go to KL as some of their 787 leases lapse.
• AF fleet will be exclusively A350 and 777-300ER by 2030.
• 777-300ER replacement program to be done in 3-4 years with deliveries to start 2030 onwards. (This to me confirms we’ll be hearing of a 4P 77W refurbishment program very soon).
• This order was placed with a lot of flexibility, the 40 options will likely be needed because the current 50 orders won’t be enough to finish the 777-200ER replacements.
• Some will be used for replacements, some will be used to replace leased aircraft with owned ones.
• Hop! replacement hasn’t been selected yet.

Reminder, this is all from a recap I’ve read elsewhere. Hope someone here can confirm or deny and that I didn’t break all the forum rules.

Most surprising thing for me here is that the A350-900 will be the smallest widebody in the AF fleet! Must be expecting quite some growth in the « niche » markets like Ottawa and Quebec.

The A321XLR could be viable for those markets (as well as other A330-served ones).