Premium Comfort Air France vs KLM

Old Sep 12, 2023, 9:50 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Houston
Posts: 439
Premium Comfort Air France vs KLM

Will be flying Singapore Air from to LHR, and looking at catching a flight from LHR to either AMS or CDG to overnight. Then catch a flight to the US, most likely JFK. I would do this option due to saving several hundred vs catching a flight with connections from LHR. Looking at flying KLM or AF in premium comfort, and possibly even in the J cabin. Can anyone tell me the difference in products comparing the two in each cabin class. Thank you
diverg is offline  
Old Sep 12, 2023, 10:05 am
  #2  
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,687
Originally Posted by diverg
Will be flying Singapore Air from to LHR, and looking at catching a flight from LHR to either AMS or CDG to overnight. Then catch a flight to the US, most likely JFK. I would do this option due to saving several hundred vs catching a flight with connections from LHR. Looking at flying KLM or AF in premium comfort, and possibly even in the J cabin. Can anyone tell me the difference in products comparing the two in each cabin class. Thank you
beware that in KL offering , there is premium economy and economy comfort

as far as i know the premium economy also called premium comfort is not yet deployed on all KL planes

also seats are not the same in J across all planes , for both KL and AF , so as your question is super wide i would recommand this website = https://flight-report.com/en/search/

it will give you an overview about what to expect, and because this site is bilingual (english + french) , if route/plane you wanna check is in french you can use autotranslate function of your webbrowser
fifty_two is offline  
Old Sep 12, 2023, 10:08 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 731
KL has a new Y+ product, one of the best in the skies. Seat is comfortable and features a footrest. Only available in their B789/10 aircraft in a 2-3-2 lay out. The rest of the doesnt have a Y+ product but B772/W aircraft will be retrofitted the coming year. Good food, much upgraded compared to Y.
AF has an old Y+ product in their B772/W and B789 fleet with some B77W being retrofitted with their newest Y+ product. This old product is truly terrible. The seat is in a fixed shell and doesnt recline, only the bottom of the seat slides forward to simulate recline. The result is a terrible comfort for your back and its so bad I prefer a regular Y seat. Their A350 aircraft has a reclining newer seat but I havent tried it yet. The food in AF Y+ is also terrible compared to KL. AF Y+ food is essentially the same as in Y, with small differences like drinking your beverage from a real glass rather than a paper cup. But the food is the same level as Y, while KL Y+ food is leaning towards J quality and a big step from Y.

So all in all, KL is the best option. You can also consider DL which has a similar product as KL across all their aircraft. Food is also much better in Y+.
BobTL is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:15 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
I will be traveling from Austin to Amsterdam. Didn't buy ticket yet. If I buy an economy ticket, can I pay to upgrade after the purchase - at any time to Premium Comfort, on the website? Or must I wait until like 48 hours before flight?
CarlosRodrigue is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:47 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Programs: FB
Posts: 179
You can always pay the change fee on your ticket and buy a new one in the higher class. You can also try calling Upgrades become available at online check-in by selecting a seat in the desired cabin, although if not immediately available, they might be visible at 24 hours before departure.
You can inquire when checking in/dropping bags at the airport, and, in the US, at the gate. Finally, if you spot an open seat on board, you can ask the purser about buying an upgrade, although you may not get the catering.
The AF W shell seats are not great, and are genuinely garbage for sleeping. You still get a little more personal space. The first meal in Y/W in AF is generally edible, and, as noted, W gets the same main course with a slightly upgraded side and silverware. The second meal is insulting garbage.
KLM's catering has traditionally been less impressive, but in Y, I imagine the only noticeable difference will be the lack of champagne. In W, KL could very well be better.
Now, in J, AF's seats are generally better than KL's; the KL 777s generally have a 2-2-2 layout up front, but beware the dreaded NAV4 layout on AF. And food/wine on AF beats KL. Cabin crew: generally, people find it easier to get along with KL crews, but I generally have fun with both.
Catering from North America back to Europe will be substantially the same on both airlines (except for the wine).

​​​​​​in other words, it's all a matter of where you want to go and what you want to pay. Personally, I would put a lot more weight on the schedules, prices, and relative importance of layover location.
​​​​​​
BubbaX is online now  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 2:15 am
  #6  
yno
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: FB, Accor, Marriot
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by diverg
Will be flying Singapore Air from to LHR, and looking at catching a flight from LHR to either AMS or CDG to overnight. Then catch a flight to the US, most likely JFK. I would do this option due to saving several hundred vs catching a flight with connections from LHR. Looking at flying KLM or AF in premium comfort, and possibly even in the J cabin. Can anyone tell me the difference in products comparing the two in each cabin class. Thank you
just keep in mind that flights LHR to AMS or CDG are less than an hour.
And from CDG there's almost 3 times the amount of flights to NYC compared to from AMS
yno is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 10:23 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by BubbaX
You can always pay the change fee on your ticket and buy a new one in the higher class.​​​​​​
Thank you, good point. I should be more specific. It is my intention to buy a ticket (economy, refundable) with money. Then at some point I would like to go back into the website and upgrade to premium comfort using miles. Does the Air France or KLM website allow this? I will be flying on KLM.

Thank you for any help.
CarlosRodrigue is offline  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 4:11 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Programs: FB
Posts: 179
When you buy the ticket, and go to the website/app to check your booking, you will see an invitation to upgrade with miles. If you click on that, it will always lead to a page that says "give FB a phone call". When you call them, they will tell you an upgrade is not possible.
in theory, it is, provided they have available seats in that upgrade-friendly (Z?) fare class. In practice, I've never succeeded, and I had a habit of booking strategically into W for the J upgrade (when available. And let me just say, 12 hours in those PE seats ain't fun, nor is it habit-forming, and I've done that a few times now).
Maestro Ramen likes this.
BubbaX is online now  
Old Oct 26, 2023, 7:47 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
Thanks, BubbaX.
I hear you about those PE seats. I was thinking of attempting the Premium Comfort, not the Premium Economy. I don't even know if that would be offered if I buy an economy ticket.
Would the website have an invitation to upgrade with money? I'm not too familiar with KLM or AF.
I know you said I could always pay the change fee and buy a new ticket. I was just wondering if the option for "paid" upgrade would show up on the website.
Thanks again.
CarlosRodrigue is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2023, 10:36 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by BubbaX
You can always pay the change fee on your ticket and buy a new one in the higher class. You can also try calling Upgrades become available at online check-in by selecting a seat in the desired cabin, although if not immediately available, they might be visible at 24 hours before departure.
You can inquire when checking in/dropping bags at the airport, and, in the US, at the gate. Finally, if you spot an open seat on board, you can ask the purser about buying an upgrade, although you may not get the catering.
The AF W shell seats are not great, and are genuinely garbage for sleeping. You still get a little more personal space. The first meal in Y/W in AF is generally edible, and, as noted, W gets the same main course with a slightly upgraded side and silverware. The second meal is insulting garbage.
KLM's catering has traditionally been less impressive, but in Y, I imagine the only noticeable difference will be the lack of champagne. In W, KL could very well be better.
Now, in J, AF's seats are generally better than KL's; the KL 777s generally have a 2-2-2 layout up front, but beware the dreaded NAV4 layout on AF. And food/wine on AF beats KL. Cabin crew: generally, people find it easier to get along with KL crews, but I generally have fun with both.
Catering from North America back to Europe will be substantially the same on both airlines (except for the wine).

​​​​​​in other words, it's all a matter of where you want to go and what you want to pay. Personally, I would put a lot more weight on the schedules, prices, and relative importance of layover location.
​​​​​​
AF doesnt fly the Nev4 equipped planes to the US anymore as far as I know.
FabCW is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2023, 11:37 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,504
Originally Posted by BubbaX
When you buy the ticket, and go to the website/app to check your booking, you will see an invitation to upgrade with miles. If you click on that, it will always lead to a page that says "give FB a phone call". When you call them, they will tell you an upgrade is not possible.
This was discussed recently, you must use the same national variant of the website that you used to buy the ticket. i.e. if you bought your ticket on klm.be you have to check the upgrade on klm.be, klm.nl nor airfrance won't work.
AnaTFN likes this.
Fabo.sk is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2023, 3:06 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,656
Originally Posted by FabCW
AF doesnt fly the Nev4 equipped planes to the US anymore as far as I know.
don't say that. Apart FIH/BZV which get them almost every day, it's totally random for the other destinations.
carnarvon, kentmontreal and hhdl like this.
Goldorak is offline  
Old Oct 27, 2023, 6:58 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Goldorak
don't say that. Apart FIH/BZV which get them almost every day, it's totally random for the other destinations.
Yep, I had an ugly NAV4 surprise YUL-CDG earlier this year. Perhaps not as random as Qatar Qsuites, but still...
kentmontreal is online now  
Old Oct 28, 2023, 3:11 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 204
Legend states that if you chant "NEV4" three times in a row in front of a bathroom mirror in the dark, once you turn on the lights, the NEV4 ghost will appear on your booking.

Other than that, hello ! To those who are really curious about it,

KLM offers a strong, reliable and unique experience in Premium Comfort but the availability on the network is scarce, and while Air France offers a good experience too on many more routes, the seat type may vary depending on the aircraft going from good to not good.

On the KLM side: KLM operates 2 daily flights to JFK in the winter season, one at 1pm and one at 5pm + an extra one in the summer :

KL641, the lunch one.
Almost exclusively operated with a B787-9/10 and always offering their Premium Comfort cabin that is equipped with very confortable Collins Aerospace MiQ seats.
Note: On Sundays in January, February and March, this flight is operated with a 772 without Premium.

KL643, the afternoon one.
This flight is operated with a B787-9/10 offering Premium Comfort on Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays until the end of the year, and on Sundays too starting 2024, and daily starting April 2024.
This flight is more sensitive to aircraft change and often switches from a B787-9 to a 772. (and 772 with KL gives a higher chance of swap to 773.) And while, the 773 fleet is partially equipped with Premium, the 777-200 is not.

And during the summer season :
KL645, the middle one.
Not daily, and is to be operated with A330 for the 2024 high season. No Premium.

All KLM Premium seats are Collins Aerospace MiQ.

On the Air France side :

Air France operates up to six flights a day to JFK, and aircraft changes on the schedule or last minute aircraft swaps are very frequent on that route. So an AF flight number is not the strongest prediction factor of the onboard product you'll get to JFK. It does't really matter if you're on AF2, 10 or 12. It's all about which aircraft type you have on that specific day. AF4, 6 and 8 have a very high chance to be operated with the Collins Aerospace Icon seat in premium, due to P product onboard.

Air France operates up to five different Premium type of seats on that route !

If you're on an A350, you could be flying either on a Recaro PL3530 seat (if seat maps indicates rows 10 to 12) or a Collins Aerospace MiQ (if seat map indicates row 15 to 18) which are both good.
If you're on a 777, you could be flying either on a Collins Aerospace Icon (the worst Premium seat ever made), a Recaro PL3530 (if seat maps indicates row 21 to 26) or Safran Airgo FX seat (more rare on that route and will probably happen due to AC change / if seat maps indicates 5 to 8). (All other seat maps mean Icon seat).

Concerning the service protocole, there is almost no difference between Economy and Premium on Air France. And while you get to drink out of a glass and have more elaborated food, allegedly, you're still eating out of an economy tray with wooden cutlery. KLM might feel a bit more elevated, but the difference is still barely noticeable.

For that particular class of travel, I would tend to choose KLM over AF.

Fun facts: KLM was actually the first airline to fly from Europe to NYC, in 1946 and the flight number KL641 has been in use for more than sixty years ! So, like the old timetable said :

on.the.bowery is offline  
Old Oct 28, 2023, 8:54 am
  #15  
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,303
Originally Posted by on.the.bowery
[..] you could be flying either on a Collins Aerospace Icon [..]
Lol @ the link But no kidding - these seats are pretty bad. If you have back or neck issues do make sure to not end up in these.

The KLM Premium Comfort product is - imho - quite a bit nicer than the AF one. The food is a real step up, while with AF it seems like it is mainly the same as the economy meal, with 1-2 small changes or larger portions. On my last flight with AF in PE my seatmate was accidentally served an Economy meal, which was nearly identical to my PE meal (Both were Chicken). Biggest difference was a slightly larger dessert and you'll get an empty glass on the tray for the PE one. That glass is, unless you ask for it specifically, not even used. Champagne is still served in plastic cups for instance.

With KLM, as long as your aircraft features the Premium Economy cabin, you're guaranteed a comfortable seat. Every drink served is with real glassware and actual metal cutlery is used too. Just feels a bit more premium compared to AF PE.
AnaTFN likes this.
Xandrios is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.