Lawrious

Hi all,

Just read in this BBC article that Terminal 4 at LHR has re-opened earlier than normal and is now back into full operations. It does mention AF and KLM had to move to T2 when T4 was forced to close, but they are not mentioned on their list of airlines returning to T4, despite there being a fair number of SkyTeam airlines doing so. Perhaps I am out of the loop, but, does anyone know what the future entails for AF-KLM at LHR? Are they staying in T2 on a permanent basis now?

Cheers,
Lawrious

Goldorak

The quoted article is not even accurate since AFKL have moved to T3 after T2. They are in T3 for about a year. I could be wrong but I don't see them moving back to T4. They are better located in T3 with their JV partners DL and VS. Connections are easier between the JV partners within same terminal.

Digicola

Surprised they managed to find room considering the amount of flights the two have. I also thought it was permanent since the skyteam lounge also closed.

irishguy28

They probably won't move back; the T4 Skyteam lounge is gone, and it's unlikely to become a "Skyteam and unaligned" terminal again.

They're not listed amongst the almost 30 airlines given moving dates for T4 on the LHR website.

AFKL are now finally co-located with their partners Delta and Virgin Atlantic at LHR, so it probably makes sense for them all to stay together under the same roof.

AF and KL have been operating in T3 since August 2021

NickB

The article is accurate on what it states: it does not state that AF and KL are now in T2. It merely states that the closure of T4 in 2020 led to a number of airlines, including AF and KL, moving to T2, which is 100% accurate.

It is true that AF and KL later moved to T3 but the article does not purport to track exhaustively the various change of terminals that have occurred nor to give a complete list of where airlines that originally moved from T4 are currently located (nor for that matter give a complete list of airlines that had to move from T4). It just gives a list (which does not even purport to be exhaustive) of airlines expected to move back to T4. I cannot see a single item in that article which is not accurate.

Lawrious

I knew of the SkyTeam lounge closure, I was unsure however if it was known this was going to be permanent/it was decided to renew the contract for the space at LHR. This was obviously difficult at the time considering the closure of T4 makes the idea of doing that unreasonable.

It does beg the question though if AF-KLM will ever have their own lounge or if they will continue to use other airline/partner/contract lounges. It is funny that the LHR SkyTeam lounge is still listed on KLM's website as existing and the lounge finder tool still highlights the Plaza Premium Lounge from Terminal 2 as being the AF-KL lounge. I assume it will be the same one Delta uses in T3 for now at least.

NickB

It is the No 1 lounge. Not a great lounge.

Digicola

I mean, in an ideal world we�d have access to the Virgin clubhouse but there no chance in the world VS is letting that happen.

I would like to see an AF lounge but if it�s like the ones in Germany then probably not worth the hassle.

NickB

[QUOTE=Digicola;34338231]I mean, in an ideal world we�d have access to the Virgin clubhouse but there no chance in the world VS is letting that happen.]AFAIK, you get access as Flying Blue Plat if you are on a DL or VS-operated UK-US flight.

The old AF lounge in LHR T2 a looooooong time ago (before they moved to T4 so we are really talking ancient history here) was preferable to the current No 1 lounge.

Duck1981

They better stay in T3, a reason to fly AF for me is the Centurion Lounge

Goldorak

Agreed.

Why ? Capacity ?

I doubt AFKL will build their own lounges. They have not open a new lounge in Europe (outside the CDG/AMS hubs of course) for a very long times and they have closed several to rely more and more on partner lounges or contract lounges. They open new lounges only in long haul stations, and even there, we can count them on one hand.

The amount of wrong/outdated information on AFKL & Skyteam websites is just unbelievable. They should really take care of this very seriously but this is not the case. And many useful information for pax are not present or so well hidden that it requires a lot of time to find them.

NickB

capacity and cost, I would have thought. I suspect that VS would charge AF and KL rather more per lounge visit than they would want to pay for a short-haul pax.

Digicola

This, the fact that only platinum and above are granted access is telling of how exclusive they are being. I believe the lounge gets pretty crowded these days so having say 20-40 more people on 18-20 flights a day to both AMS and CDG and you quickly have a capacity problem.

And since the lounge has all the bells and whistles like a la carte dining, a barber etc you can bet Virgin charges a premium for it.

Lawrious

Ah well, at least they seem content with opening more SkyTeam branded lounges considering SCL now has a brand new SkyTeam lounge in their fancy new International Terminal.

It really does amaze me they do not employ a dedicated team to double-check consistency. However, considering how much has been overlaid and slapped onto the AF and KL websites it's hardly surprising. However, it is confusing the SkyTeam website is still out of date.

Personally, I liked T4, it seemed quieter and has a lot of connected hotels now that don't require a taxi to get to. But alas, I cannot have it all.

r0gerthat

Hijacking this thread for some experience sharing;

Yesterday arrived at LHR T3 with KL only to wait 3 hours on my luggage. There were two AF flights and a VS flight that were experiencing similar timelines.
BA flights had also longer wait times, but a few BA flights were on the same carrousel as the KL flight and despite arriving later, they got their luggage on the belt a lot earlier.

Big mess, very disappointing