fifty_two

Hello

see news below

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/27/co...-france-miles/

A new player entered the market , Its a french fintech startup called mooncard , and partnered with FB , so it can attract more corporate customers

As mentionned in the title it is a corporate card not available directly to the public but only if your company decide to use mooncard services , they would like to help corporate customers by , for instance , getting rid of extra work created by expenses reports , or better manage the cards handed to their employees by applying stricter policies

So far i can see they are focused (and not axed) on french market but we can expect them to extend to other countries if everything goes well

irishguy28

If they've already been "axed" on the French market, then it's not a great start!!!

Xandrios

At 240 euro per year it offers a single miles per euro spent, which is not too bad - comparable with the Amex Gold card. But it is a little more expensive, and doesn't seem to have any other FB advantages other than just the miles.

That doesn't mean that its a bad card though. We should probably not compare it to the regular FB Amex but rather a corporate version of that (if that exists?)..

NickB

I suspect fifty_two meant "axé sur", viz. oriented towards

fifty_two

ahhh , omg , sorry , i mean focused , i got lost somewhere in the process

fifty_two

The earnings of the amex FB corporate card for miles are the same as amex FB gold (10€ =15 miles for AFKL spendings and 10€ = 10 miles elsewhere)

At least the amex FB corporate comes with the usual benefits for such card , plus others for your company . However mooncard is not trying to compete on the same level. . With amex you , as an employee , still have a lot of manual work to do for your expenses reports, which can be time consuming , while mooncard (according to what they say) can help you reduce efforts needed for this very funny topic . Think of it as if amex buy concur and offers a unique solution to manage everything in one place , maybe iam wrong but thats how it looks for me , as their main selling point

Fun fact = according to what i read , AF is one of their customers !!! Good lesson for amex !!

anyway , I've been told and teached about amex/FB by my colleagues few years ago while waiting for delayed plane at AMS due to bad weather , so i can share what i know

This amex FB card (or cards if your company is very large) is/are linked with bluebiz (so your company needs to have a bluebiz account , you can check it in your past bookings if you still have them)

Each contract signed between companies and AFKL is more or less tailored , depending on the volumes plus other factors , so no idea how much it cost in total (unless you are in good touch with travel&expenses team lead and you can extract this information during an afterparty while everybody is drunk)

Your employer will then collect bluebiz points (1 euro = 1 bluebiz point) that can be spend back on AFKL tickets , while you will collect miles on your personal account , so it is really interesting for you (essentially free miles) and your company if they send dozens of executives, sales representatives or useless consultants flying around the world all the time

I also learned that apparently i would need to declare all miles i earned and/or possess if i move in germany (can't remember the exact full story but if someone know about this topic please share his/her knowledge)

I dont know if all companies where i worked got bluebiz directly or through their TAs , because in many cases i was the only one flying AFKL or ST amongst my colleagues due to a rare disease i suffer from (severe procrastination which always causes competitors to be more expensive at booking time) so no logical reasons to have such contract, however i saw these bluebiz ids quite often in my AFKL bookings throughout the years and even in my FB account details. I also have no idea if that is thanks to bluebiz or corporate TA , but miles earning were quite good for corporate tickets even when public prices were more or less similar

So the amex FB corporate is totally fine for multiple reasons
.

1. you collect miles without effort and investment
2. you dont pay for it
3. amex support is quite good in case of issues
4. whatever happen with the balance sheets doesnt affect your credit records,
5. much better than a regular amex corporate where you cant get the MR for yourself cause it belongs to your employer

The only real problems , which are common to all amex for bizness travellers
.

1. it doesnt work everywhere like the Visa/MC cartel
2. sometimes transactions can take days to appear in the account with all details
3. withdrawal fees which generates an additionnal line in the statements

that's my 2 cents !

Yolow

To add some precision:

• The company earn 3 blue credits per 100Eur spent,
• Each blue credit earned worth 1Eur.

Masterfrog

The Amex Gold PRO costs 230 euros and only offers 20 XP.

Getting the same amount of miles on a VISA is very attractive.
On the other hand that VISA adds 3% of FX fees which is not great at all.
Insurance is made by Allianz / Mondial Assistance which is a good point as they have good reputation.
It is worth it if you find utility with their homemade API.

I would say N26 or Revolut are more attractive though with their premium cards : a bit cheaper, no FX fees, cashback instead of miles

fifty_two

Yes but dont forget that we are talking about corporate cards , so unless you are freelancer or in a high/crucial position in your company where you can influence such choice then you as an employee will use whatever your company decides

A work around is to pay for travel expenses with your private amex, collect FB or MR and then get your reimbursment .. Thats what some greedy "every penny is worth not being spend" companies are doing , but even if they give you your money back it doesnt cover all the hidden costs

Visa is also an FB partner ? Or maybe some banks in specific countries offer AFKL FB debit/credtit Visa cards ??

I do not deny the reputation , but you are tied to the terms&conditions negotiated for this specific card , and its a double edge sword

Can you elaborate ?? how would you connect to their systems using this API and for which purposes ??

These "neo fintech financial services providers" (i call them this way cause many people made the mistake of calling them banks) do not play in the same market , also if i recall correctly, revolut is charging extra fees on top of mastercard rate for weekends transactions , but we need to check if it does it also apply for corporate cards

Masterfrog

Well this kind of card is made for freelancers and small companies. Anyway, when you are not in position to get a choice you just get the card they want to offer you.

The API seems to come very handy to sort out your bills on the cloud and calculate automatically the VAT you can get back for your entreprise.
I can see it as a great time saver when you have to do all that bureaucracy by yourself.
I don't think there is any Flying Blue VISA in Europe at the moment so being able to get miles on pretty much everything is a big plus.
Allianz is also the insurance you get when you pay the extra fee with your Air France tickets. They have desks everywhere around the world so they are trained to face tricky situations. You right to point the eternal problem of fine prints but AXA doesn't seem more premium than any other insurance if you read the Amex posts.

Fintechs will come to a point where they will compete properly with online banking. At the moment, I wouldn't put all my eggs with them because you can get problems to receive money with a foreign IBAN and the savings offers are pretty poor. But they are improving quickly and got proper banking licencies recently.
I've only seen Amex cutting benefits from their cards whereas competitive offers entered the market.
Anyway good to see Amex getting competition on Flying Blue cards in the French market.

carnarvon

I have just subscribed to 2 Mooncards.

They offer three cards:

1) Mobility (for fuel, car maintenance or repairs and tolls).

o Generates 0.5 FB mile / € spent

o costs 7.5 € / month

2) Corporate (all expenses) with Insurance similar to Amex Gold card

o 7,000 welcome miles

o Generates 1 FB mile / € spent

o Costs 19.90 month

3) Premium

o 21,000 welcome miles

o Generates 1.5 miles/€ spent

o Costs 49.90 € / month

There is a minimum invoicing of 29,90 €.

To be able to use the cards, you need to feed a dedicated account at Treezor (A Fintech, subsidiary of BNP).

- Each reloading of the account generates a fee of 0.3% of the amount.

All three cards come with an expense report management app, which basically consists in you taking pictures of each supporting document for the expense and then it is all sent to your accounting software. I have not had the training, so cannot explain more.

The signing up is eventless and runs smoothly. They ask for basic information and documents (ID, Kbis, bank details etc..).

So far, so good.

Now comes the not so impressing points:

Not only do the people on the phone seem not to know the product, but they promise to enquire and call back but they do not call back.

o The 0.3% are advertised nowhere (or certainly not highlighted). It adds to the cost of the cards.

o I asked if the 0.3% fee would be included in the monthly invoiced amount. Three days later no one got back to me to answer.

o I asked how to create a profile with administrator rights but who is not a card holder. She did not know. She said she would enquire. I eventually had to find myself, navigating through the menu.

o I asked how long it would take for the transferred funds to be available for spending with the Mooncard. The answer was evasive. She said she would enquire, and I did not hear from them.

- I called again and this time was told that once the funds reach our Treezor account, they need one extra day “because they are not a bank”. It makes both sense and no sense.

o Makes sense because indeed they are not a bank, so may need 24 hours to process the information

o Makes no sense, because once the money is at Treezor, it stays there unless I spend it. So, why would they need 24 hours extra time to make my money available with their card?

o I called again, asking why it was taking so long for the first transfer to be validated (SEPA transfer made on Wednesday morning before our bank cut off meaning it reached our Treezor account on Wednesday evening). She said she would enquire.

Shortly after this call, I received an email saying:

- Company file # <Company: SXZ> has been approved by our compliance department. Your transfer of 1000.0 € has therefore been accepted and will be credited to your VISA Mooncard account within 3 working days. We will send you an email as soon as funds are available in the account.

What can be the justification?

- Once again, I called and was told she was only the receptionist and would forward my enquiry.

- I sent a follow up email asking for the justification for freezing MY money for three days once it had reached the account and been vetted.

Of course, as usual, not answer and no call back.

That’s it for now.

Does anyone on this forum have experience with Mooncard ?

MarcElMile

I recently signed up as well for the card, there is no contract period, so easy to try it out and easy to get signing bonus of 21.000miles. They are offering referral incentives as well on individual level which could be interesting earning more miles or even cash (let me know if anyone is interested :P).

That said, I certainly have my doubts, the top-up cost has moved from 0.3% to 0.5%. Feels like you are almost paying for your own miles reward. The foreign exchange fees are also at 3% (worse than Amex!).

Personally, I'm mostly interested to try out their booking concierge (was promised discounts on flights and hotels). Will post back in a month or two for a mini review.

sbams

More importantly, it's a Visa option. How often did you ever encounter a retailer who does not accept Visa? And by comparison, how often do you encounter retailers who do not accept Amex? It is my biggest annoyance of the FB / Amex cooperation. I have an Amex Plat for all the benefits it gives me and would not want to give it up but I really would like to have a Visa/MC alongside it.

carnarvon

Almost? But you ARE paying for your own miles.

Let’s have a look at what this company offers:

1) You pay for your own miles (0.3% then, 0.5% now)

2) The expense report app is no better than cheaper alternatives on the market

3) This is not a credit card, but a prepaid card.

For example, if you want to rent a car, the full amount for the pre-authorisation (rent, deposit etc) must be available on your Mooncard account, otherwise the transaction is declined.

The amount is then frozen till you finalise the transaction.

4) The reloading service is totally unreliable.

Once you send the money to top up your account, you have zero visibility on where your money is and when it will be made available to you (the T&C say it takes 2 to 5 working days). This not only happens with your first transfer (see my first report on this thread) but for all money transfers.

I initially got an email from one of their people saying that once the funds are on Treezor account, they are available on Mooncard account the next day.

Unfortunately, the next reloading did not go as promised. It took 4 days for the funds to be available on my Mooncard account (despite coming from the same vetted bank account as usual).

I emailed Treezor and Mooncard several times, but got NO factual answer, except one Mooncard employee who asked for the SEPA transaction slip. I sent it to her, but she never got back to me.

The funds eventually popped up on the 4th day without a word from Mooncard.

I nevertheless tried once more to adapt myself to their modus operandi because I was indeed keen to keep the cards.

• I asked a seemingly plain question: “tell me under which circumstances it takes 2, 3, 4 or 5 days for the transferred funds to be available?” I even tried to make it simpler by asking what I should do to find myself in the 2 days scenario.

Their arrogant answer has been: “we do not have to justify or explain the time needed for your money to be available once it reaches our banking partner Treezor. This is an internal matter. Our T&C state 2 to 5 days, so you have nothing to ask or complain about”.

• Treezor, where your company must open a bank account to get a Mooncard is even worse.

They are dismissive and unhelpful. They go as far as citing “confidentiality obligations” to justify the fact that they refuse to give you any information about your own money on you own account opened in their books.

Can you picture yourself facing an issue in the middle of a business trip with such abysmal level of service? Scary, right?

• If you wish to learn more about the Mooncard experience: https://fr.trustpilot.com/review/mooncard.co

I have an uneasy feeling when I read the positive comments. They lack substance and mostly laud the expense report function but are silent about the financial aspects.

• Not uninteresting to read about Treezor neither: https://fr.trustpilot.com/review/treezor.com