Ben Smith's expectations for ramping up operations

Old Apr 24, 20, 4:16 am
  #61  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 14,562
Originally Posted by glennhaak View Post
Well there was, as a bonus was tied to how Ben would lead AF-KL through the crisis with a direct link to the financial position of AF-KL and how much financial support he would be able to get from the French and Dutch governments, meaning that the more financial support he would be able to get, the higher his bonus would be.
.
Sorry, but that sounds like the kind of fake news that agitate social networks.
NickB likes this.
brunos is offline  
Old Apr 24, 20, 7:34 am
  #62  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: FB Platinum, SM Diamond
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by brunos View Post
But I have seen some pretty good looking ones.
You talk about mask or condom ?
NickB, brunos, irishguy28 and 2 others like this.
FBplatinum is offline  
Old Apr 24, 20, 2:18 pm
  #63  
Hilton 25+ BadgeMarriott 10+ Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,925
Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Sorry, but that sounds like the kind of fake news that agitate social networks.
This was certainly not fake news.. due to this ridiculous condition attached, the Dutch govt was not ready to help in bailing the AFKLM out, it was the topic of the day in the news until late afternoon when he prepared to drop it. If I remember correctly, the French govt was OK with it, but not the Dutch govt.

To me in current situation, I believe as a good management team including the CEO, if your company is suffering from this, the first thing that should be done is lead by example and take a pay cut before firing your employees.. get rewarded only after you have managed to lead the company out of the crisis even as a smaller company.

Cheers!
CosmicGirl and glennhaak like this.
nldogbert is offline  
Old Apr 24, 20, 3:18 pm
  #64  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 17,828
Originally Posted by nldogbert View Post
This was certainly not fake news..
The issue was not about P Elbers's bonus but Ben Smith's one. Glenhaak was apparently suggesting that Ben Smith's bonus would be related to the amount that Ben Smith was able to extract from the French and Dutch governments, which would be typical twattersphere/Fakebook nonsense
NickB is online now  
Old Apr 24, 20, 7:46 pm
  #65  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: Mileage Plus Life Platinum
Posts: 1,512
In a company video to staff today Ben Smith seemed very earnest with a tinge of excitement. Whether it was relief that he would still get a chance to bring Air France 'properly' on course after threading the 2-country fundraising together, just the relief, I'm not sure. Changes are on the way obviously but at least the executive team can now concentrate on strategy during very difficult times. He's very low key and humble, and/or very well trained in media savviness!
adambrau is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 12:21 am
  #66  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 14,562
Originally Posted by nldogbert View Post
This was certainly not fake news.. due to this ridiculous condition attached, the Dutch govt was not ready to help in bailing the AFKLM out, it was the topic of the day in the news until late afternoon when he prepared to drop it. If I remember correctly, the French govt was OK with it, but not the Dutch govt.

To me in current situation, I believe as a good management team including the CEO, if your company is suffering from this, the first thing that should be done is lead by example and take a pay cut before firing your employees.. get rewarded only after you have managed to lead the company out of the crisis even as a smaller company.

Cheers!
If you have an official link stating that Ben Smith was requesting a bonus linked to the amount of State bailout he could negotiate, please post the link.
He had already agreed to pay cuts.
The issue of Elbers still wished to receive his 2019 bonus is a completely different story.
brunos is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 2:14 am
  #67  
Hilton 25+ BadgeMarriott 10+ Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,925
from what I can find back on this, "The move follows an outcry in the Netherlands over new performance criteria that appeared to reward the CEO for attracting state aid"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN2250Q5
nldogbert is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 4:17 am
  #68  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 14,562
Originally Posted by nldogbert View Post
from what I can find back on this, "The move follows an outcry in the Netherlands over new performance criteria that appeared to reward the CEO for attracting state aid"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN2250Q5
So, the bonus had nothing to do with what glennhaak claimed. And Ben SMith had announced his pay cut or forfeit of variable bonus well before.

It's one thing to say that a CEO should not get a bonus, as due for the past year results, if the company requires State aid this year. It is another to claim, as above, that the CEO earns a bonus based on the amount of State aid the CEO is able to negotiate.
NickB, Goldorak and HalconBCN like this.

Last edited by brunos; Apr 25, 20 at 5:46 am
brunos is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 6:48 am
  #69  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold; BA Rust
Posts: 26,841
Originally Posted by adambrau View Post
In a company video to staff today Ben Smith seemed very earnest with a tinge of excitement. Whether it was relief that he would still get a chance to bring Air France 'properly' on course after threading the 2-country fundraising together, just the relief, I'm not sure. Changes are on the way obviously but at least the executive team can now concentrate on strategy during very difficult times. He's very low key and humble, and/or very well trained in media savviness!
Just wait til the AF staff strip the very shirt from his back....

irishguy28 is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 1:27 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,906
What a shame the opportunity wasn't taken by the Dutch for a quasi private/state buyback of KLM from AF-KL. Freeing them from the French incompetence at running an airline once and for all.
carnarvon and Xizm like this.
hugolover is offline  
Old Apr 25, 20, 5:55 pm
  #71  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, Iberia Silver
Posts: 936
Originally Posted by hugolover View Post
What a shame the opportunity wasn't taken by the Dutch for a quasi private/state buyback of KLM from AF-KL. Freeing them from the French incompetence at running an airline once and for all.
I would like to remind you that KLM was running huge annual losses in the years before the merger with Air France so the idea that the Dutch are somehow naturally gifted at running airlines and the French are "incompetent" needs to be questioned.

I feel Elbers has done a great job as KLM CEO but his airline has no doubt on balance benefitted from the merger with Air France and the markets this has opened up for an airline that serves a country of 17 million for one single airport.

Similiar to the Netherlands' relationship with the EU, KLM benefits from being part of something bigger. It makes sense to remain in solidarity with your allies and share the burden, not only from an emotional perspective but also a transactional one. Without a strong Air France KLM will get weak, and vice versa. They are stronger together. Now, more than ever.
HalconBCN is offline  
Old Apr 26, 20, 6:59 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum | Flying Blue Petroleum | Hilton Gold | Marriott Gold | Shangri-La Jade
Posts: 304
Originally Posted by brunos View Post
It is another to claim, as above, that the CEO earns a bonus based on the amount of State aid the CEO is able to negotiate.
That indeed was one of the newly added terms for his bonus: "The move follows an outcry in the Netherlands over new performance criteria that appeared to reward the CEO for attracting state aid - prompting Dutch Finance minister Wopke Hoekstra to call publicly for his bonus to be scrapped."
glennhaak is offline  
Old Apr 26, 20, 9:00 am
  #73  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,906
Originally Posted by HalconBCN View Post
I would like to remind you that KLM was running huge annual losses in the years before the merger with Air France so the idea that the Dutch are somehow naturally gifted at running airlines and the French are "incompetent" needs to be questioned.

I feel Elbers has done a great job as KLM CEO but his airline has no doubt on balance benefitted from the merger with Air France and the markets this has opened up for an airline that serves a country of 17 million for one single airport.

Similiar to the Netherlands' relationship with the EU, KLM benefits from being part of something bigger. It makes sense to remain in solidarity with your allies and share the burden, not only from an emotional perspective but also a transactional one. Without a strong Air France KLM will get weak, and vice versa. They are stronger together. Now, more than ever.
Yes, we all know that KLM was bought for 1 and 'saved' from the glue factory. But things are very different now and there was a real opportunity to bring KLM back to the NL. Now missed.

They will burn thorough this cash very fast and the begging bowl will be out once more.
hugolover is offline  
Old Apr 26, 20, 9:13 am
  #74  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 14,562
Originally Posted by glennhaak View Post
That indeed was one of the newly added terms for his bonus: "The move follows an outcry in the Netherlands over new performance criteria that appeared to reward the CEO for attracting state aid - prompting Dutch Finance minister Wopke Hoekstra to call publicly for his bonus to be scrapped."
Repeating a fake news does not make it true.
NickB, Goldorak and Satie like this.
brunos is offline  
Old Apr 27, 20, 12:52 pm
  #75  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,906
Originally Posted by hugolover View Post
What a shame the opportunity wasn't taken by the Dutch for a quasi private/state buyback of KLM from AF-KL. Freeing them from the French incompetence at running an airline once and for all.
Looking more likely now? https://fd.nl/ondernemen/1342878/klm...met-air-france
hugolover is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread