Mar 17, 20, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Mar 15, 20, 5:17 am
#121
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 17,972
Yes: you can get the whole ticket refunded even if only one leg is cancelled.
Mar 15, 20, 8:13 am
#122
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BOD, IJK
Programs: BA, LH, AF
Posts: 208
I have a couple of reservations for which I have flown the outbound sectors but not the returns. Does anyone have any experience of partial refunds when segments have already been flown? I suspect I will be better off rebooking the flights to later dates as I certainly plan to make the journeys when practical. However, if I rebook now to, say, the end of May, it is uncertain whether I will be able to change the dates again (for free) once the travel situation is clearer.
Mar 15, 20, 12:51 pm
#123
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YVR, YYC, SEA, AMS, ORK
Programs: AS, FB, SPG, MR
Posts: 343
I cannot see anywhere on KLM website about them refunding any ticket https://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/pre...date/index.htm.
Mar 15, 20, 2:59 pm
#124
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EDI
Programs: Flying Blue Gold
Posts: 319
I have a couple of reservations for which I have flown the outbound sectors but not the returns. Does anyone have any experience of partial refunds when segments have already been flown? I suspect I will be better off rebooking the flights to later dates as I certainly plan to make the journeys when practical. However, if I rebook now to, say, the end of May, it is uncertain whether I will be able to change the dates again (for free) once the travel situation is clearer.
As they are work flights and a 4 weeks away I was planning to leave it a couple of weeks before calling, see how things go as they aren't urgent. Have a few personal flights in April that are still scheduled, those are my priority.
Mar 15, 20, 3:14 pm
#125
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 17
Can someone explain to me how online refund form works for non-refundable tickets? Do I need to cancel tickets first in 'My Bookings' (where it tells that you only got refunded for tax etc.) and THEN submit online refund form OR I just submit online refund form and they cancel it for me? If latter, how long does it take for them to confirm ticket cancellation? I've got flight in four days and I'm not sure if I should try to call them, because this way it's instant and I'm not sure if four days are enough for them to confirm my cancellation.
Mar 16, 20, 2:39 am
#126
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 43
Can someone explain to me how online refund form works for non-refundable tickets? Do I need to cancel tickets first in 'My Bookings' (where it tells that you only got refunded for tax etc.) and THEN submit online refund form OR I just submit online refund form and they cancel it for me? If latter, how long does it take for them to confirm ticket cancellation? I've got flight in four days and I'm not sure if I should try to call them, because this way it's instant and I'm not sure if four days are enough for them to confirm my cancellation.
Just submit online refund form from here or call them :
https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/commo...air-france-htm
If you purchased a non-refundable ticket before 31 March, please complete the form below to obtain a travel voucher. This non-refundable voucher is valid for 1 year on all Air France, KLM and Delta flights
Fill out a refund form
YOUR FLIGHT HAS BEEN CANCELED
If your flight has been canceled and you no longer want to travel, you can obtain a refund of your ticket from your sales agent.
If you purchased your ticket on our website, you can request a refund online.
Request a refund online
Last edited by Paul74; Mar 16, 20 at 2:53 am
Mar 16, 20, 4:04 am
#127
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 17
Don't cancel it in "My bookings" !!!
Just submit online refund form from here or call them :
https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/commo...air-france-htm
If you purchased a non-refundable ticket before 31 March, please complete the form below to obtain a travel voucher. This non-refundable voucher is valid for 1 year on all Air France, KLM and Delta flights
Fill out a refund form
YOUR FLIGHT HAS BEEN CANCELED
If your flight has been canceled and you no longer want to travel, you can obtain a refund of your ticket from your sales agent.
If you purchased your ticket on our website, you can request a refund online.
Request a refund online
Just submit online refund form from here or call them :
https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/commo...air-france-htm
If you purchased a non-refundable ticket before 31 March, please complete the form below to obtain a travel voucher. This non-refundable voucher is valid for 1 year on all Air France, KLM and Delta flights
Fill out a refund form
YOUR FLIGHT HAS BEEN CANCELED
If your flight has been canceled and you no longer want to travel, you can obtain a refund of your ticket from your sales agent.
If you purchased your ticket on our website, you can request a refund online.
Request a refund online
Mar 16, 20, 7:14 am
#128
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA Silver, AlaskaAir, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,412
KLM Voucher vs. Refund?
Hi, question for the folks here with KLM. Bought a MSP-AMS-SIN ticket in December, obvi not going to be able to use it. But none of the flights is showing "cancelled".
It was N class, so discounted Y ticket, but US$1223 so not in the "super cheap" category.
Right now, they've said I can only get a voucher.
If any of the flights actually show as "cancelled", would I be able to get a refund of the $$?
Or even so, just a voucher for future use?
Thanks!
It was N class, so discounted Y ticket, but US$1223 so not in the "super cheap" category.
Right now, they've said I can only get a voucher.
If any of the flights actually show as "cancelled", would I be able to get a refund of the $$?
Or even so, just a voucher for future use?
Thanks!
Mar 16, 20, 8:21 am
#129
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London / Amsterdam
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 212
I recently cancelled a flight and got a voucher which is valid for a year. That should be fine right?
The voucher can be spent on any KL, AF or DL flight and if not used completely, you will get a new one with the leftover value. Also, this new one, has renewed validity of a year, is what they told me on the phone.
The voucher can be spent on any KL, AF or DL flight and if not used completely, you will get a new one with the leftover value. Also, this new one, has renewed validity of a year, is what they told me on the phone.
Mar 16, 20, 8:24 am
#130
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 122
AF-KL playing games, I strongly disapprove.
If you look at CDG-WAW, they haven't officially cancelled any flights except the ones that were scheduled for today and tomorrow.
But obviously, the decision to cancel all or almost all flights CDG-WAW between March 18 and March 28 has been made. They have been cancelled. All availability has been zeroed out. They just haven't gone public with it.
I understand gaps between the cancellation decision and communication to the customer of a day or two. But this is BS. Inventory has been completely nulled out for days. It stands to reason they hope people take the voucher as opposed to waiting for official cancellations so they can take the money. DON'T fall for it.
If you look at CDG-WAW, they haven't officially cancelled any flights except the ones that were scheduled for today and tomorrow.
But obviously, the decision to cancel all or almost all flights CDG-WAW between March 18 and March 28 has been made. They have been cancelled. All availability has been zeroed out. They just haven't gone public with it.
I understand gaps between the cancellation decision and communication to the customer of a day or two. But this is BS. Inventory has been completely nulled out for days. It stands to reason they hope people take the voucher as opposed to waiting for official cancellations so they can take the money. DON'T fall for it.
Mar 16, 20, 9:22 am
#131
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 17
AF-KL playing games, I strongly disapprove.
If you look at CDG-WAW, they haven't officially cancelled any flights except the ones that were scheduled for today and tomorrow.
But obviously, the decision to cancel all or almost all flights CDG-WAW between March 18 and March 28 has been made. They have been cancelled. All availability has been zeroed out. They just haven't gone public with it.
I understand gaps between the cancellation decision and communication to the customer of a day or two. But this is BS. Inventory has been completely nulled out for days. It stands to reason they hope people take the voucher as opposed to waiting for official cancellations so they can take the money. DON'T fall for it.
If you look at CDG-WAW, they haven't officially cancelled any flights except the ones that were scheduled for today and tomorrow.
But obviously, the decision to cancel all or almost all flights CDG-WAW between March 18 and March 28 has been made. They have been cancelled. All availability has been zeroed out. They just haven't gone public with it.
I understand gaps between the cancellation decision and communication to the customer of a day or two. But this is BS. Inventory has been completely nulled out for days. It stands to reason they hope people take the voucher as opposed to waiting for official cancellations so they can take the money. DON'T fall for it.
Mar 16, 20, 10:33 am
#132
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 122
Again, I think it's a nasty practice on part of AF-KL. They obviously know that on certain routes, they're going to cancel most flights due to 14+ day travel bans in place. Yet they wait until like 48 or 72 hours before departure until they cancel officially.
Mar 16, 20, 10:38 am
#133
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 17
I wouldn't risk one hour. The chance of the web site being down or the call center unreachable is too high. But 24 hours or 12 hours shouldn't be a problem.
Again, I think it's a nasty practice on part of AF-KL. They obviously know that on certain routes, they're going to cancel most flights due to 14+ day travel bans in place. Yet they wait until like 48 or 72 hours before departure until they cancel officially.
Again, I think it's a nasty practice on part of AF-KL. They obviously know that on certain routes, they're going to cancel most flights due to 14+ day travel bans in place. Yet they wait until like 48 or 72 hours before departure until they cancel officially.
