Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Sep 15, 2020, 9:14 am
#931
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: FB Plat, *A Gold
Posts: 369
Sep 16, 2020, 12:19 am
#933
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
New rebooking policy in case of PCR test result non available
I thought that this could interest many of you. AFKL has a specific rebooking policy in case a PCR test is required for a flight/for a destination but you have not received the result on-time
English translation:
voluntary postponement instructions: PCR test not available before the travel date:
Due to the permanent evolution of the health situation linked to the coronavirus (covid-19), health measures have been implemented by many countries with in particular the need to be in possession of a negative PCR test.
The following voluntary postponement instructions are available for all customers with an Air France (057) or KLM (074) ticket and who need a few extra days to get their test, regardless of the destination.
NB:
- These instructions are only valid if the customer requests a modification of his trip before the departure of his flight, regardless of the point of contact.
- These instructions are in addition to the current general voluntary deferral instructions.
Ticket issue date: regardless of the issue date
Travel dates concerned: until December 31, 2020
Postponement deadline: within 4 days of the original travel date or on the next available flight
Reissue date: between 2 days before departure and the day of travel
Consignes de report volontaire : Test PCR non disponible avant la date de voyage :
En raison de l'évolution permanente de la situation sanitaire liée au coronavirus (covid-19) des mesures sanitaires sont mises en place par de nombreux pays avec notamment la nécessité d'ętre en possession d'un test PCR négatif.
Les consignes suivantes de report volontaire sont disponibles pour tous les clients ayant un billet Air France (057) ou KLM (074) et qui ont besoin de quelques jours supplémentaires pour obtenir leur test, quelle que soit la destination.
NB :
- Ces consignes sont valables uniquement si le client demande la modification de son voyage avant le départ de son vol, quel que soit le point de contact.
- Ces consignes s'ajoutent aux consignes générales de report volontaire actuelles.
Date d'émission du billet : quelle que soit la date d'émission
Dates de voyages concernées : jusqu'au 31 décembre 2020
Date limite de report : dans les 4 jours qui suivent la date de voyage initiale ou sur le prochain vol disponible
Date de réémission : entre 2 jours avant le départ et le jour du voyage
En raison de l'évolution permanente de la situation sanitaire liée au coronavirus (covid-19) des mesures sanitaires sont mises en place par de nombreux pays avec notamment la nécessité d'ętre en possession d'un test PCR négatif.
Les consignes suivantes de report volontaire sont disponibles pour tous les clients ayant un billet Air France (057) ou KLM (074) et qui ont besoin de quelques jours supplémentaires pour obtenir leur test, quelle que soit la destination.
NB :
- Ces consignes sont valables uniquement si le client demande la modification de son voyage avant le départ de son vol, quel que soit le point de contact.
- Ces consignes s'ajoutent aux consignes générales de report volontaire actuelles.
Date d'émission du billet : quelle que soit la date d'émission
Dates de voyages concernées : jusqu'au 31 décembre 2020
Date limite de report : dans les 4 jours qui suivent la date de voyage initiale ou sur le prochain vol disponible
Date de réémission : entre 2 jours avant le départ et le jour du voyage
voluntary postponement instructions: PCR test not available before the travel date:
Due to the permanent evolution of the health situation linked to the coronavirus (covid-19), health measures have been implemented by many countries with in particular the need to be in possession of a negative PCR test.
The following voluntary postponement instructions are available for all customers with an Air France (057) or KLM (074) ticket and who need a few extra days to get their test, regardless of the destination.
NB:
- These instructions are only valid if the customer requests a modification of his trip before the departure of his flight, regardless of the point of contact.
- These instructions are in addition to the current general voluntary deferral instructions.
Ticket issue date: regardless of the issue date
Travel dates concerned: until December 31, 2020
Postponement deadline: within 4 days of the original travel date or on the next available flight
Reissue date: between 2 days before departure and the day of travel
Sep 16, 2020, 1:01 am
#934
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum For Life; ALL Platinum
Posts: 203
This last move of AF on allowing rebooking within 4 days is a good move; However it will not solve the problem of having the test result within 72 hours, which from what I read and hear is also very challenging;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
Sep 16, 2020, 12:03 pm
#935
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: LH SEN, FB Plat., HH D.
Posts: 5,050
Hello all,
Back in March I booked a cheap KL ticket in Biz to fly from BCN to MEX in July.
The airline cancelled/change the flights several times so I decided to postpone my trip until October.
Taking in consideration how this is evolving, I don’t want to book weeks in advance but only 3/4 days, and I phoned today asking if this it would be possible and they told me that probably I would have to pay a fare difference.
This is correct? I understood that providing there was space in Biz class they would “override” the fare bucket system.
Thanks for your insight,
Back in March I booked a cheap KL ticket in Biz to fly from BCN to MEX in July.
The airline cancelled/change the flights several times so I decided to postpone my trip until October.
Taking in consideration how this is evolving, I don’t want to book weeks in advance but only 3/4 days, and I phoned today asking if this it would be possible and they told me that probably I would have to pay a fare difference.
This is correct? I understood that providing there was space in Biz class they would “override” the fare bucket system.
Thanks for your insight,
Sep 16, 2020, 12:47 pm
#936
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
This last move of AF on allowing rebooking within 4 days is a good move; However it will not solve the problem of having the test result within 72 hours, which from what I read and hear is also very challenging;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
Got the result today at 5pm. So D+1
Heard that some companies are dealing with « occupational physician » of their area to get test results within the day.
Sep 16, 2020, 1:32 pm
#937
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
This last move of AF on allowing rebooking within 4 days is a good move; However it will not solve the problem of having the test result within 72 hours, which from what I read and hear is also very challenging;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
The good approach would be : in case you cannot get the result within 72 hours then you can rebook later ;
Sep 16, 2020, 1:53 pm
#938
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum For Life; ALL Platinum
Posts: 203
I agree with you that testing is a requirement from countries outside control of Airlines; However Airlines needs these days to make it as easy as possible for the client to fly again like Ethiad policy :https://www.etihad.com/en-fr/travel-...-travel-guides
"If your test is positive or you are unable to present proof of your negative COVID-19 PCR test, you will not be permitted to travel. You can rearrange your flight for free, or cancel and use the value of your flight towards your next trip with Etihad Credit"
"If your test is positive or you are unable to present proof of your negative COVID-19 PCR test, you will not be permitted to travel. You can rearrange your flight for free, or cancel and use the value of your flight towards your next trip with Etihad Credit"
Sep 17, 2020, 8:45 am
#939
Join Date: May 2018
Programs: Flying Blue, BAEC, VAFC, IHG Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 389
Sep 17, 2020, 2:31 pm
#940
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan
Sep 17, 2020, 3:01 pm
#941
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SJC
Programs: Southwest, Alaska, United, American Airlines
Posts: 994
Interestingly, I called KLM twice in recent days to get more detail about the scope of the current policy. Apparently, bookings are now completely changeable such that the origin city and country can also be changed in addition to the destination and dates without a change fee penalty, so long as the difference in fare is paid. This is a major improvement and enables me to consider using my AFKL voucher through AFKL Reservations instead of booking through, say, Delta.
Sep 24, 2020, 2:32 am
#942
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,610
Rebooked KLM with no additional fare collected
Wife and had a rt LAX-BIO on AF booked directly thru KLM. Trip was booked for departure in August, and we could not fly even if wanted to on US passports. We called KLM in July and changed all the flights to "OPEN". At that time, the agent said to call back in September to rebook for a feasible date or convert to a voucher. I found a date in June 2021 that had "Z" fare available, but priced much higher than what we had originally paid on Sept 30, 2019.
Agent simply rebooked for our preferred June 2021 dates with no additional fare collected.
I also had a separate LAX-MAD rt booked for December. Was also able to move it to March/April 2021 with no additional fare collected. Again, a "Z" fare rebooked to a "Z" fare (at a little higher price).
Very happy with KLM!
Agent simply rebooked for our preferred June 2021 dates with no additional fare collected.
I also had a separate LAX-MAD rt booked for December. Was also able to move it to March/April 2021 with no additional fare collected. Again, a "Z" fare rebooked to a "Z" fare (at a little higher price).
Very happy with KLM!
Last edited by Bowgie; Oct 4, 2020 at 1:40 pm
Sep 29, 2020, 9:37 am
#943
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 128
I bought a pair of tickets on Air France through an OTA (Flight Network). About $3,000 total. Air France cancelled the flights on May 8th due to COVID, and Flight Network sent me an email saying I had been issued a voucher. As described in the email from Flight Network on May 8th, the conditions on the voucher are very strict: must be used before Jan 6th 2021, all travel must be completed before Jan 6 2021, must be used for the passengers with the same name, if used to buy ticket of lower value the difference in price is lost.
I now see on the Air France website that the conditions on Air France vouchers are considerably more permissive (for example can use until the end of 2021), and that you can apply for a refund.
I'm trying to figure out my options. Is this an Air France voucher with terms dictated by them, or is this a Flight Network voucher? Can I apply for a refund, and if so, do I do that through Air France, or does Flight Network have to do it on my behalf through Air France?
Flight Network's "priority" line has 80 minute wait times, so I'm hoping to avoid working with them.
I now see on the Air France website that the conditions on Air France vouchers are considerably more permissive (for example can use until the end of 2021), and that you can apply for a refund.
I'm trying to figure out my options. Is this an Air France voucher with terms dictated by them, or is this a Flight Network voucher? Can I apply for a refund, and if so, do I do that through Air France, or does Flight Network have to do it on my behalf through Air France?
Flight Network's "priority" line has 80 minute wait times, so I'm hoping to avoid working with them.
Last edited by mhaines94108; Sep 29, 2020 at 10:00 am
Oct 5, 2020, 5:19 pm
#944
Join Date: May 2004
Location: formerly Gold now Diamond, formerly MSY, now LAX, formerly NW, now DL
Programs: Hyatt Plat, Hilton Gold, SPG Gold, Delta Diamond/1MM
Posts: 4,635
Yeah, I have 2 AF Z fare LAX-DUB-LAX flight that was originally suppose to fly April 2020 --> Oct 2020, which has flight cancellations for up to 8 hours earlier on the return. I called today to try to punt to Sept 2021 since it just doesn't seem feasible until then but they told me that I'd have to pay the fare difference (was a very good $2000 RT fare) and that they would let one of the reissue desks reprice the ticket (books at $4k currently) and would take about a week for them to respond by email. I wish they would just let us rebook into the available Z inventory...if not looks like I"m going to ask for a refund. The extra 15% is ok, but seems a bit annoying to have to purchase $2300 tickets to get the benefits of the voucher.
Oct 12, 2020, 8:34 pm
#945
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sacramento
Programs: FB Silver, BA Gold; BW Diamond Select, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 156
Kenya Airways Covid Refund
SAA dispute still open.