Old Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
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Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


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COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old Jul 24, 2020, 2:53 pm
  #856  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I've been waiting since May 1st. called the other day and was told they are working on March/April and some May.
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Old Jul 27, 2020, 5:00 pm
  #857  
 
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Originally Posted by DreamTrip
I've been waiting since May 1st. called the other day and was told they are working on March/April and some May.
Oh my that's terrible, wonder why KLM is doing so much worse than Air France seem to be (based on a few posts here)? I've been waiting since May on a Virgin Atlantic refund, no sign of when that will come through either!
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Old Jul 29, 2020, 9:41 pm
  #858  
 
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Rebook Now or Later?

AF cancelled my rt LAX-(CDG)-BIO (Bilbao, Spain), which was going to depart on August 4.
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.

Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
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Old Jul 29, 2020, 10:33 pm
  #859  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Originally Posted by Bowgie
AF cancelled my rt LAX-(CDG)-BIO (Bilbao, Spain), which was going to depart on August 4.
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.

Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
I think I’d call earlier than later, especially since you know when you want to fly. The chances that they would take action on their own are low...but if that happened it could take ages to sort out...

I requested refund/voucher back in March, got neither, so finally in June I decided to call and request change of dates for August... That was done no bother... After that my itinerary got changed several times, cancellations, retimings, arriving at destination before connecting flight leaves the origin...etc...

That got fixed eventually too.. but now, 2 weeks from departure, my whole booking was suddenly struck down and “is no longer valid... because you requested a voucher”... “which may take several weeks”.......

So yeah, person on the phone does one thing, yet that March request is still somewhere in the pipeline, with no end in sight, and is screwing up the system...

I’m not even mad anymore I just hope they still know how to fly planes... because this whole... booking voucher refund thing - they can’t do.
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Old Jul 30, 2020, 2:54 am
  #860  
 
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I would call. For two of my tickets they preemptively issued vouchers and it was a total pain to fix.
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Old Jul 30, 2020, 10:20 am
  #861  
gkl
 
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[MENTION=35856]Bowgie[/MENTION]: disclaimer: It's totally up to you when you want to reschedule your trip and for what reason you travel.
However, to be honest I would not be too optimistic about the November date. The situation in Spain is currently getting worse. A couple of European countries are already requiring quarantine (=shutting their borders) for people returning from Spain or discussing this measure. If we are lucky we will have something what we can call "free movement" in Schengen countries over here in Europe in November. Thinking about travel to/from the US is not realistic by then (this is just my personal opinion). Why does this matter to you? When you reschedule your trip now for November and for whatever reason the flights go ahead as planned (AF is currently doing a couple of CDG-LAX returns a week), however your passport still does not allow you to enter Spain, then you will have bad luck. Receiving a voucher is - according to the currently published rules - only possible for flights until August or cancelled flights. The only possibility would then be to change the date for free as long as the same booking class is available, otherwise you need to pay the fare difference. This is not bad per se, but worse than the situation now, when the airline cancelled the flight, you can basically choose any later flight as long as there is availability in the cabin (not the booking class).
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time. I have one unused AF-ticket to HND ticket open from May and wait until I know when I will be allowed to travel to Japan.
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Old Jul 31, 2020, 12:21 pm
  #862  
 
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Rebooking Result

Originally Posted by gkl
[MENTION=35856]Bowgie[/MENTION] ... I would not be too optimistic about the November date. The situation in Spain is currently getting worse. A couple of European countries are already requiring quarantine (=shutting their borders) for people returning from Spain or discussing this measure. If we are lucky we will have something what we can call "free movement" in Schengen countries over here in Europe in November. Thinking about travel to/from the US is not realistic by then (this is just my personal opinion). Why does this matter to you? When you reschedule your trip now for November and for whatever reason the flights go ahead as planned (AF is currently doing a couple of CDG-LAX returns a week), however your passport still does not allow you to enter Spain, then you will have bad luck. Receiving a voucher is - according to the currently published rules - only possible for flights until August or cancelled flights. The only possibility would then be to change the date for free as long as the same booking class is available, otherwise you need to pay the fare difference. This is not bad per se, but worse than the situation now, when the airline cancelled the flight, you can basically choose any later flight as long as there is availability in the cabin (not the booking class).
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time...
1. I mentioned November only because I understood AF's policy is departures after Nov 30 are subject to re-pricing. Totally agree 2021 travel would be better.

2. I first called AF in Paris last night. Agent picked up after about 10 min, but refused to help because ticket was issued by KLM in US. This is stupid because AF in Paris rebooked and repriced (small $$ increase) a different ticket for me from March to December when many people (and me) thought the world would whip this plague much more quickly. I acknowledge I know better now.

3. I called KLM US 800 number this morning. After about 40 min hold time, agent had no problem removing my flights to make the ticket open. But she cautioned me that I *must* called KLM back BEFORE October 1 to rebook. I think this was the original purchase date in 2019. The ticket was auto-reissued by KLM for a flight number and/or schedule change in January 15. I guess that did not extend the ticket validity.

Agent said that when I rebook, the departure date must be before December 1, or the ticket will be subject to repricing. Agent also said that I could convert the ticket to a voucher, but that still has the same "subject to current prices" issue. Not good. Also can refund (at least for now), but agent says min of 3 months to process.

Thanks gkl. You gave me good advice. I have two months to re-think my travel plans, or hope AF/KLM relaxes their rebooking policy.
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Old Jul 31, 2020, 12:36 pm
  #863  
 
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Originally Posted by Bowgie
1. I mentioned November only because I understood AF's policy is departures after Nov 30 are subject to re-pricing. Totally agree 2021 travel would be better.

2. I first called AF in Paris last night. Agent picked up after about 10 min, but refused to help because ticket was issued by KLM in US. This is stupid because AF in Paris rebooked and repriced (small $$ increase) a different ticket for me from March to December when many people (and me) thought the world would whip this plague much more quickly. I acknowledge I know better now.

3. I called KLM US 800 number this morning. After about 40 min hold time, agent had no problem removing my flights to make the ticket open. But she cautioned me that I *must* called KLM back BEFORE October 1 to rebook. I think this was the original purchase date in 2019. The ticket was auto-reissued by KLM for a flight number and/or schedule change in January 15. I guess that did not extend the ticket validity.

Agent said that when I rebook, the departure date must be before December 1, or the ticket will be subject to repricing. Agent also said that I could convert the ticket to a voucher, but that still has the same "subject to current prices" issue. Not good. Also can refund (at least for now), but agent says min of 3 months to process.

Thanks gkl. You gave me good advice. I have two months to re-think my travel plans, or hope AF/KLM relaxes their rebooking policy.
AF in Paris not being able to help may have more to do with the ticket being issued in the US rather than it being issued by KLM. It does seem in many cases, reservations and tickets need to be changed in the same country they were issued in. I remember a few years back I had a corporate TA that, for whatever reason, would issue all my AF tickets from Switzerland, and any time I needed to deal with those reservations I would get redirected to AF's Swiss site...

That said, there does seem to be more of a rift opening up between AF and KLM. I called the PSL last night to follow up on a voucher that I hadn't received for a flight that was cancelled over a month ago, and the agent told me that they couldn't help me because "they are AF and the ticket was issued by KLM" and then gave me a 35-centime-per-minite number to a KLM call center.
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Old Aug 1, 2020, 3:45 am
  #864  
 
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Originally Posted by CanuckInParis
That said, there does seem to be more of a rift opening up between AF and KLM. I called the PSL last night to follow up on a voucher that I hadn't received for a flight that was cancelled over a month ago, and the agent told me that they couldn't help me because "they are AF and the ticket was issued by KLM" and then gave me a 35-centime-per-minite number to a KLM call center.
I got exactly the same problem last week with a KL voucher I was waiting for.
I called the platinum french number and the agent told me she couldn't help for the same reason.
I tried to argue that I was calling the Flying Blue platinum line, not and AF number, and that Flying Blue was the FFP of both AF AND KL (and others...).
She tried to explain that reality was not so simple and that my Platinum status was an AF status and that I was not Platinum on other companies !!!
I told her that I fully understand that I'm not Platinum on SOME other Skyteam companies like Delta because their FFP is different (but that I'm elite plus on those), but that this is NOT the case for KLM and other FB airlines.
She didn't know what to answer and finally told me that "anyway, for all money related issues, AF and KL are totally distinct companies" and that I should call KLM.
Then I asked if there was a "KLM platinum number" and she didn't know...
I told her that I was really "disappointed" by the bad PSL service and said good bye...
Finally I checked my e-ticket and found a (free) french KL number where I could enter my FB card number and got an almost immediate answer.
Problem was solved in less than 3 minutes and the agent even waited on the line until I receive the mail with the voucher...
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Old Aug 1, 2020, 12:45 pm
  #865  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Originally Posted by SteveCanary
I got exactly the same problem last week with a KL voucher I was waiting for.
I called the platinum french number and the agent told me she couldn't help for the same reason.
I tried to argue that I was calling the Flying Blue platinum line, not and AF number, and that Flying Blue was the FFP of both AF AND KL (and others...).
She tried to explain that reality was not so simple and that my Platinum status was an AF status and that I was not Platinum on other companies !!!
I told her that I fully understand that I'm not Platinum on SOME other Skyteam companies like Delta because their FFP is different (but that I'm elite plus on those), but that this is NOT the case for KLM and other FB airlines.
She didn't know what to answer and finally told me that "anyway, for all money related issues, AF and KL are totally distinct companies" and that I should call KLM.
Then I asked if there was a "KLM platinum number" and she didn't know...
I told her that I was really "disappointed" by the bad PSL service and said good bye...
Finally I checked my e-ticket and found a (free) french KL number where I could enter my FB card number and got an almost immediate answer.
Problem was solved in less than 3 minutes and the agent even waited on the line until I receive the mail with the voucher...
At least my agent said that normally they could help with KLM issues and it was just voucher issuing where things were separate. The KLM app gave me a free french KL number to call. The agent there said my request was still in the queue and it could take up to 90 days to get my voucher. I pressed them on that saying that the website currently says to call if you don't get your voucher within 14 days and it was only cash refunds that could take up to 90 and he said he would "send a message to the voucher team, but it takes a very long time." The voucher was in my email inbox the next morning.
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Old Aug 7, 2020, 5:51 am
  #866  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
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I'm looking to rebook a Promo award we originally had booked in January for April of 2020. In March, we pushed it to late August, thinking things would be better by then. Given that even fall looks risky, we would like to just push our trip to April. I know this is outside of the November 30th window. Any advice on how to approach this? I guess I could continue to speculatively move the trip by a month and continue to do so if they continue to push the rebooking window, but that seems like a giant pain. Thoughts/suggestions? Was really hoping to have that Promo pricing locked in.
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Old Aug 8, 2020, 1:15 pm
  #867  
 
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Originally Posted by captcolin
I'm looking to rebook a Promo award we originally had booked in January for April of 2020. In March, we pushed it to late August, thinking things would be better by then. Given that even fall looks risky, we would like to just push our trip to April. I know this is outside of the November 30th window. Any advice on how to approach this? I guess I could continue to speculatively move the trip by a month and continue to do so if they continue to push the rebooking window, but that seems like a giant pain. Thoughts/suggestions? Was really hoping to have that Promo pricing locked in.
Ask them to keep the ticket open beyond August and have them agree you will call back to rebook when you have more clarity on dates.
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Old Aug 10, 2020, 1:33 am
  #868  
 
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I finally received vouchers today for a flight which KLM cancelled due to Covid-19. I think I'd paid for seating and maybe a single checked bag. There were 2 of us travelling. They sent 8 vouchers! Some are for £17.30 and some for £9.30. I also have vouchers from a cancelled Air France flight. I was flying into Scotland from Australia on Air France and then flying some weeks later to Amsterdam. I'd then return to Scotland before flying home to Australia. Depending on when I get my leave, I may need to have a stop over in Amsterdam as part of a trip to or from Australia. The Air France vouchers are in Australian Dollars. The KLM vouchers are in Pounds. I assume I won't be able to use the both lots of vouchers to pay for the one booking? If not, I may have vouchers which I can't really use.
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Old Aug 10, 2020, 4:25 am
  #869  
 
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Originally Posted by weegraeme
I finally received vouchers today for a flight which KLM cancelled due to Covid-19. I think I'd paid for seating and maybe a single checked bag. There were 2 of us travelling. They sent 8 vouchers! Some are for £17.30 and some for £9.30. I also have vouchers from a cancelled Air France flight. I was flying into Scotland from Australia on Air France and then flying some weeks later to Amsterdam. I'd then return to Scotland before flying home to Australia. Depending on when I get my leave, I may need to have a stop over in Amsterdam as part of a trip to or from Australia. The Air France vouchers are in Australian Dollars. The KLM vouchers are in Pounds. I assume I won't be able to use the both lots of vouchers to pay for the one booking? If not, I may have vouchers which I can't really use.
you can if you book by phone.
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Old Aug 10, 2020, 4:57 am
  #870  
 
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I had 4 bookings waiting to be refunding by KLM. Flights cancelled in March/April. KLM had agreed to refund. In late May I gave up waiting and did a CC chargeback, money has been back on the card for over three cycles.

Today I get an email from KLM to say that one of my tickets was exchanged and so they cannot credit it, yes you dolts, you did it as you kept bloody cancelling my kids flights home and changing her tickets and not just the flights. Anyway, am amused that KLM does not seem aware of the info that must be contained in their files. Bizarre.

Has this happened to anyone else? I am inclined to ignore.
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