Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Jul 27, 2020, 5:00 pm
#857
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,514
Oh my that's terrible, wonder why KLM is doing so much worse than Air France seem to be (based on a few posts here)? I've been waiting since May on a Virgin Atlantic refund, no sign of when that will come through either!
Jul 29, 2020, 9:41 pm
#858
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,610
Rebook Now or Later?
AF cancelled my rt LAX-(CDG)-BIO (Bilbao, Spain), which was going to depart on August 4.
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.
Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.
Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
Jul 29, 2020, 10:33 pm
#859
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 186
AF cancelled my rt LAX-(CDG)-BIO (Bilbao, Spain), which was going to depart on August 4.
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.
Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
I'm OK with that because I can't get admitted to EU as a US passport holder now.
However, the ticket only cost $2,050 in biz class, and I want to reschedule in November instead of refunding.
Do I have to call now, or can I wait until later without risk of AF proactively turning the booking into a refund or voucher?
I requested refund/voucher back in March, got neither, so finally in June I decided to call and request change of dates for August... That was done no bother... After that my itinerary got changed several times, cancellations, retimings, arriving at destination before connecting flight leaves the origin...etc...
That got fixed eventually too.. but now, 2 weeks from departure, my whole booking was suddenly struck down and “is no longer valid... because you requested a voucher”... “which may take several weeks”.......
So yeah, person on the phone does one thing, yet that March request is still somewhere in the pipeline, with no end in sight, and is screwing up the system...
I’m not even mad anymore
I just hope they still know how to fly planes... because this whole... booking voucher refund thing - they can’t do.
Jul 30, 2020, 10:20 am
#861
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: ZRH / SIN
Programs: FB Ulti, QR-Gold (OWS), TK *Gold, Bonvoy Ambassadort Elite, GHA Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 531
@Bowgie: disclaimer: It's totally up to you when you want to reschedule your trip and for what reason you travel.
However, to be honest I would not be too optimistic about the November date. The situation in Spain is currently getting worse. A couple of European countries are already requiring quarantine (=shutting their borders) for people returning from Spain or discussing this measure. If we are lucky we will have something what we can call "free movement" in Schengen countries over here in Europe in November. Thinking about travel to/from the US is not realistic by then (this is just my personal opinion). Why does this matter to you? When you reschedule your trip now for November and for whatever reason the flights go ahead as planned (AF is currently doing a couple of CDG-LAX returns a week), however your passport still does not allow you to enter Spain, then you will have bad luck. Receiving a voucher is - according to the currently published rules - only possible for flights until August or cancelled flights. The only possibility would then be to change the date for free as long as the same booking class is available, otherwise you need to pay the fare difference. This is not bad per se, but worse than the situation now, when the airline cancelled the flight, you can basically choose any later flight as long as there is availability in the cabin (not the booking class).
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time. I have one unused AF-ticket to HND ticket open from May and wait until I know when I will be allowed to travel to Japan.
However, to be honest I would not be too optimistic about the November date. The situation in Spain is currently getting worse. A couple of European countries are already requiring quarantine (=shutting their borders) for people returning from Spain or discussing this measure. If we are lucky we will have something what we can call "free movement" in Schengen countries over here in Europe in November. Thinking about travel to/from the US is not realistic by then (this is just my personal opinion). Why does this matter to you? When you reschedule your trip now for November and for whatever reason the flights go ahead as planned (AF is currently doing a couple of CDG-LAX returns a week), however your passport still does not allow you to enter Spain, then you will have bad luck. Receiving a voucher is - according to the currently published rules - only possible for flights until August or cancelled flights. The only possibility would then be to change the date for free as long as the same booking class is available, otherwise you need to pay the fare difference. This is not bad per se, but worse than the situation now, when the airline cancelled the flight, you can basically choose any later flight as long as there is availability in the cabin (not the booking class).
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time. I have one unused AF-ticket to HND ticket open from May and wait until I know when I will be allowed to travel to Japan.
Jul 31, 2020, 12:21 pm
#862
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,610
Rebooking Result
@Bowgie ... I would not be too optimistic about the November date. The situation in Spain is currently getting worse. A couple of European countries are already requiring quarantine (=shutting their borders) for people returning from Spain or discussing this measure. If we are lucky we will have something what we can call "free movement" in Schengen countries over here in Europe in November. Thinking about travel to/from the US is not realistic by then (this is just my personal opinion). Why does this matter to you? When you reschedule your trip now for November and for whatever reason the flights go ahead as planned (AF is currently doing a couple of CDG-LAX returns a week), however your passport still does not allow you to enter Spain, then you will have bad luck. Receiving a voucher is - according to the currently published rules - only possible for flights until August or cancelled flights. The only possibility would then be to change the date for free as long as the same booking class is available, otherwise you need to pay the fare difference. This is not bad per se, but worse than the situation now, when the airline cancelled the flight, you can basically choose any later flight as long as there is availability in the cabin (not the booking class).
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time...
I would call, ask them to remove the flights in the ticket (to avoid a no-show) and ask them to leave the ticket open for you to choose alternative dates at a later time...
2. I first called AF in Paris last night. Agent picked up after about 10 min, but refused to help because ticket was issued by KLM in US. This is stupid because AF in Paris rebooked and repriced (small $$ increase) a different ticket for me from March to December when many people (and me) thought the world would whip this plague much more quickly. I acknowledge I know better now.
3. I called KLM US 800 number this morning. After about 40 min hold time, agent had no problem removing my flights to make the ticket open. But she cautioned me that I *must* called KLM back BEFORE October 1 to rebook. I think this was the original purchase date in 2019. The ticket was auto-reissued by KLM for a flight number and/or schedule change in January 15. I guess that did not extend the ticket validity.
Agent said that when I rebook, the departure date must be before December 1, or the ticket will be subject to repricing. Agent also said that I could convert the ticket to a voucher, but that still has the same "subject to current prices" issue. Not good. Also can refund (at least for now), but agent says min of 3 months to process.
Thanks gkl. You gave me good advice. I have two months to re-think my travel plans, or hope AF/KLM relaxes their rebooking policy.
Jul 31, 2020, 12:36 pm
#863
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
1. I mentioned November only because I understood AF's policy is departures after Nov 30 are subject to re-pricing. Totally agree 2021 travel would be better.
2. I first called AF in Paris last night. Agent picked up after about 10 min, but refused to help because ticket was issued by KLM in US. This is stupid because AF in Paris rebooked and repriced (small $$ increase) a different ticket for me from March to December when many people (and me) thought the world would whip this plague much more quickly. I acknowledge I know better now.
3. I called KLM US 800 number this morning. After about 40 min hold time, agent had no problem removing my flights to make the ticket open. But she cautioned me that I *must* called KLM back BEFORE October 1 to rebook. I think this was the original purchase date in 2019. The ticket was auto-reissued by KLM for a flight number and/or schedule change in January 15. I guess that did not extend the ticket validity.
Agent said that when I rebook, the departure date must be before December 1, or the ticket will be subject to repricing. Agent also said that I could convert the ticket to a voucher, but that still has the same "subject to current prices" issue. Not good. Also can refund (at least for now), but agent says min of 3 months to process.
Thanks gkl. You gave me good advice. I have two months to re-think my travel plans, or hope AF/KLM relaxes their rebooking policy.
2. I first called AF in Paris last night. Agent picked up after about 10 min, but refused to help because ticket was issued by KLM in US. This is stupid because AF in Paris rebooked and repriced (small $$ increase) a different ticket for me from March to December when many people (and me) thought the world would whip this plague much more quickly. I acknowledge I know better now.
3. I called KLM US 800 number this morning. After about 40 min hold time, agent had no problem removing my flights to make the ticket open. But she cautioned me that I *must* called KLM back BEFORE October 1 to rebook. I think this was the original purchase date in 2019. The ticket was auto-reissued by KLM for a flight number and/or schedule change in January 15. I guess that did not extend the ticket validity.
Agent said that when I rebook, the departure date must be before December 1, or the ticket will be subject to repricing. Agent also said that I could convert the ticket to a voucher, but that still has the same "subject to current prices" issue. Not good. Also can refund (at least for now), but agent says min of 3 months to process.
Thanks gkl. You gave me good advice. I have two months to re-think my travel plans, or hope AF/KLM relaxes their rebooking policy.
That said, there does seem to be more of a rift opening up between AF and KLM. I called the PSL last night to follow up on a voucher that I hadn't received for a flight that was cancelled over a month ago, and the agent told me that they couldn't help me because "they are AF and the ticket was issued by KLM" and then gave me a 35-centime-per-minite number to a KLM call center.
Aug 1, 2020, 3:45 am
#864
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 267
That said, there does seem to be more of a rift opening up between AF and KLM. I called the PSL last night to follow up on a voucher that I hadn't received for a flight that was cancelled over a month ago, and the agent told me that they couldn't help me because "they are AF and the ticket was issued by KLM" and then gave me a 35-centime-per-minite number to a KLM call center.
I called the platinum french number and the agent told me she couldn't help for the same reason.
I tried to argue that I was calling the Flying Blue platinum line, not and AF number, and that Flying Blue was the FFP of both AF AND KL (and others...).
She tried to explain that reality was not so simple and that my Platinum status was an AF status and that I was not Platinum on other companies !!!
I told her that I fully understand that I'm not Platinum on SOME other Skyteam companies like Delta because their FFP is different (but that I'm elite plus on those), but that this is NOT the case for KLM and other FB airlines.
She didn't know what to answer and finally told me that "anyway, for all money related issues, AF and KL are totally distinct companies" and that I should call KLM.
Then I asked if there was a "KLM platinum number" and she didn't know...
I told her that I was really "disappointed" by the bad PSL service and said good bye...
Finally I checked my e-ticket and found a (free) french KL number where I could enter my FB card number and got an almost immediate answer.
Problem was solved in less than 3 minutes and the agent even waited on the line until I receive the mail with the voucher...
Aug 1, 2020, 12:45 pm
#865
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
I got exactly the same problem last week with a KL voucher I was waiting for.
I called the platinum french number and the agent told me she couldn't help for the same reason.
I tried to argue that I was calling the Flying Blue platinum line, not and AF number, and that Flying Blue was the FFP of both AF AND KL (and others...).
She tried to explain that reality was not so simple and that my Platinum status was an AF status and that I was not Platinum on other companies !!!
I told her that I fully understand that I'm not Platinum on SOME other Skyteam companies like Delta because their FFP is different (but that I'm elite plus on those), but that this is NOT the case for KLM and other FB airlines.
She didn't know what to answer and finally told me that "anyway, for all money related issues, AF and KL are totally distinct companies" and that I should call KLM.
Then I asked if there was a "KLM platinum number" and she didn't know...
I told her that I was really "disappointed" by the bad PSL service and said good bye...
Finally I checked my e-ticket and found a (free) french KL number where I could enter my FB card number and got an almost immediate answer.
Problem was solved in less than 3 minutes and the agent even waited on the line until I receive the mail with the voucher...
I called the platinum french number and the agent told me she couldn't help for the same reason.
I tried to argue that I was calling the Flying Blue platinum line, not and AF number, and that Flying Blue was the FFP of both AF AND KL (and others...).
She tried to explain that reality was not so simple and that my Platinum status was an AF status and that I was not Platinum on other companies !!!
I told her that I fully understand that I'm not Platinum on SOME other Skyteam companies like Delta because their FFP is different (but that I'm elite plus on those), but that this is NOT the case for KLM and other FB airlines.
She didn't know what to answer and finally told me that "anyway, for all money related issues, AF and KL are totally distinct companies" and that I should call KLM.
Then I asked if there was a "KLM platinum number" and she didn't know...
I told her that I was really "disappointed" by the bad PSL service and said good bye...
Finally I checked my e-ticket and found a (free) french KL number where I could enter my FB card number and got an almost immediate answer.
Problem was solved in less than 3 minutes and the agent even waited on the line until I receive the mail with the voucher...
Aug 7, 2020, 5:51 am
#866
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 1
I'm looking to rebook a Promo award we originally had booked in January for April of 2020. In March, we pushed it to late August, thinking things would be better by then. Given that even fall looks risky, we would like to just push our trip to April. I know this is outside of the November 30th window. Any advice on how to approach this? I guess I could continue to speculatively move the trip by a month and continue to do so if they continue to push the rebooking window, but that seems like a giant pain. Thoughts/suggestions? Was really hoping to have that Promo pricing locked in.
Aug 8, 2020, 1:15 pm
#867
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Air Europa Silver, IHG Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,010
I'm looking to rebook a Promo award we originally had booked in January for April of 2020. In March, we pushed it to late August, thinking things would be better by then. Given that even fall looks risky, we would like to just push our trip to April. I know this is outside of the November 30th window. Any advice on how to approach this? I guess I could continue to speculatively move the trip by a month and continue to do so if they continue to push the rebooking window, but that seems like a giant pain. Thoughts/suggestions? Was really hoping to have that Promo pricing locked in.
Aug 10, 2020, 1:33 am
#868
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: BNE
Programs: QF, KLM, BA
Posts: 446
I finally received vouchers today for a flight which KLM cancelled due to Covid-19. I think I'd paid for seating and maybe a single checked bag. There were 2 of us travelling. They sent 8 vouchers! Some are for £17.30 and some for £9.30. I also have vouchers from a cancelled Air France flight. I was flying into Scotland from Australia on Air France and then flying some weeks later to Amsterdam. I'd then return to Scotland before flying home to Australia. Depending on when I get my leave, I may need to have a stop over in Amsterdam as part of a trip to or from Australia. The Air France vouchers are in Australian Dollars. The KLM vouchers are in Pounds. I assume I won't be able to use the both lots of vouchers to pay for the one booking? If not, I may have vouchers which I can't really use.
Aug 10, 2020, 4:25 am
#869
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
I finally received vouchers today for a flight which KLM cancelled due to Covid-19. I think I'd paid for seating and maybe a single checked bag. There were 2 of us travelling. They sent 8 vouchers! Some are for £17.30 and some for £9.30. I also have vouchers from a cancelled Air France flight. I was flying into Scotland from Australia on Air France and then flying some weeks later to Amsterdam. I'd then return to Scotland before flying home to Australia. Depending on when I get my leave, I may need to have a stop over in Amsterdam as part of a trip to or from Australia. The Air France vouchers are in Australian Dollars. The KLM vouchers are in Pounds. I assume I won't be able to use the both lots of vouchers to pay for the one booking? If not, I may have vouchers which I can't really use.
Aug 10, 2020, 4:57 am
#870
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 1,001
I had 4 bookings waiting to be refunding by KLM. Flights cancelled in March/April. KLM had agreed to refund. In late May I gave up waiting and did a CC chargeback, money has been back on the card for over three cycles.
Today I get an email from KLM to say that one of my tickets was exchanged and so they cannot credit it, yes you dolts, you did it as you kept bloody cancelling my kids flights home and changing her tickets and not just the flights. Anyway, am amused that KLM does not seem aware of the info that must be contained in their files. Bizarre.
Has this happened to anyone else? I am inclined to ignore.
Today I get an email from KLM to say that one of my tickets was exchanged and so they cannot credit it, yes you dolts, you did it as you kept bloody cancelling my kids flights home and changing her tickets and not just the flights. Anyway, am amused that KLM does not seem aware of the info that must be contained in their files. Bizarre.
Has this happened to anyone else? I am inclined to ignore.