Old Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


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COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old Jun 11, 2020, 10:52 am
  #766  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,303
Originally Posted by Reload
That is interesting news, good to see they are finally intending to comply with EU regulations. I would happily keep the voucher (received last month) if the 15% were valid for the whole time of the voucher; our next holiday is late July next year so under their restrictions no extra for us. As it is I have no incentive to keep the voucher and will be applying for a cash refund, just wondering how long it'll take?
That's fantastic news you mean! At least for people like me with several thousand $ worth of vouchers.
Like you, curious how long refunds will take, if it's a year then it's no use. Also how to proceed? Considering the amount of requests they'll have hopefully it will be done through some form online.
Benjh is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 10:59 am
  #767  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Reload
That is interesting news, good to see they are finally intending to comply with EU regulations. I would happily keep the voucher (received last month) if the 15% were valid for the whole time of the voucher; our next holiday is late July next year so under their restrictions no extra for us. As it is I have no incentive to keep the voucher and will be applying for a cash refund, just wondering how long it'll take?
I had the exact same reaction. I fly enough with them that I don't mind holding a voucher for 15% bonus. However I'm just not ready to book before the end of October 2020.

So now I have applied for the refund of my voucher. I have tried this through the regular online form. Not sure if it is correct, but we'll see.
Rambol is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 11:54 am
  #768  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 50
Great news!

is there a webform to fill out to request an actual refund?
Marbles is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 12:32 pm
  #769  
 
Join Date: May 2003
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I wonder if this will apply to residual amounts on vouchers as well?
bostontraveler is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 2:02 pm
  #770  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by Marbles
Great news!

is there a webform to fill out to request an actual refund?
Not quite ready yet... from the AF page:
If you have already received a voucher for a cancelled flight and wish to opt for a refund, you will be able to do so. The technical conditions are in preparation and will be detailed here as soon as possible.
Reload likes this.
Carpacchio is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 9:50 pm
  #771  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,531
Glad I checked. I had filed complaints with both DOT and AMEX. DOT, curiously replied back and sad "too bad." Which is interesting, as their directive in April was pretty clear. I look forward to the technical conditions!
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Old Jun 11, 2020, 10:17 pm
  #772  
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[QUOTE=Rambol;32448263]AF/KLM has adjusted their refund policy to finally comply with the law. .[/QUOTEI
In part because they started to receive some of the bailout money. Hence they can afford to pay.
brunos is offline  
Old Jun 11, 2020, 11:46 pm
  #773  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bellevue, WA - AA EXP 3MM
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Originally Posted by 19103_aa
Glad I checked. I had filed complaints with both DOT and AMEX. DOT, curiously replied back and sad "too bad." Which is interesting, as their directive in April was pretty clear.
Could be an error by DOT. Even in the best of times, DOT staff sometimes make errors. These are not the best of times -- unprecedented complaint volume to DOT, I'm sure difficult for their staff, probably necessitating temps and rookies of various sorts. For others similarly situated, it could be appropriate to reply to an obviously-incorrect evaluation by DOT. Could also file a formal complaint per instructions on my site, if an initial informal complaint got an incorrect resolution.
bedelman is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 3:31 am
  #774  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
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I'm in a tricky position.
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.

I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.

Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?

Thanks for you inputs
Benjh is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 3:44 am
  #775  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 293
Originally Posted by Benjh
I'm in a tricky position.
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.

I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.

Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?

Thanks for you inputs
i think no ...because your voucher is non refundable from the beginning...
Wil973 is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 3:50 am
  #776  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,303
Originally Posted by Wil973
i think no ...because your voucher is non refundable from the beginning...
Is there a note on the EMD itself that says refundable or not? How can I check what I received (even though I know you're probably right)?
My voucher has this:
"Restriction(s) / Restriction(s): (*M*NONREF EMD FOR FUTURE TRAVEL VALID 1YR ON AF-KL-DL-VS-KQ / REF ONLY AFTER 1YR FROM DOI **CORONAVIRUS**)"

Last edited by Benjh; Jun 12, 2020 at 3:54 am Reason: edited to add reference to voucher
Benjh is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 4:24 am
  #777  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Originally Posted by palmanfr
In your case, you would just need to have availability in X on the outbound flights and V on the return flights, and they should be waiving the change fee. If those classes are no longer available, they will charge you the fare difference between X or V and the new booking class.
Thanks,

Are these fare codes somewhat regular or not (if you know)?
FrequentSherm is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 10:57 am
  #778  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,593
Booked ory/nce and Air France rebooked on a flight pm instead than morning.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.

there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.

I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but I’m being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that I’d like but they don’t reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they don’t pick up.

How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?

this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.

Thank you for your help.
CGRA is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 11:27 am
  #779  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by CGRA
Booked ory/nce and Air France rebooked on a flight pm instead than morning.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.

there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.

I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but Iím being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that Iíd like but they donít reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they donít pick up.

How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?

this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.

Thank you for your help.
I've had the 'no flights available' problem when trying to change on the web many times in the past and have always been able to get what I wanted quickly when calling in. AF just updated their July and August schedules this week, resulting in a ton of cancellations and changes (I've had all my flights for those two months cancelled), so you can imagine that every communications channel is swamped right now. Unless you're travelling really soon, you may just want to wait a few days for things to calm down and try calling again. They may even get back to you on twitter before that.
CanuckInParis is offline  
Old Jun 12, 2020, 1:26 pm
  #780  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,593
Thank you Canuckinparis.
For the last 2 trips I was able to change and cancel on their web site.
Hopefully my preferred flights will be still available.
CGRA is offline  

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