Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Jun 11, 2020, 10:52 am
#766
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,301
That is interesting news, good to see they are finally intending to comply with EU regulations. I would happily keep the voucher (received last month) if the 15% were valid for the whole time of the voucher; our next holiday is late July next year so under their restrictions no extra for us. As it is I have no incentive to keep the voucher and will be applying for a cash refund, just wondering how long it'll take?
Like you, curious how long refunds will take, if it's a year then it's no use. Also how to proceed? Considering the amount of requests they'll have hopefully it will be done through some form online.
Jun 11, 2020, 10:59 am
#767
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
That is interesting news, good to see they are finally intending to comply with EU regulations. I would happily keep the voucher (received last month) if the 15% were valid for the whole time of the voucher; our next holiday is late July next year so under their restrictions no extra for us. As it is I have no incentive to keep the voucher and will be applying for a cash refund, just wondering how long it'll take?
So now I have applied for the refund of my voucher. I have tried this through the regular online form. Not sure if it is correct, but we'll see.
Jun 11, 2020, 2:02 pm
#770
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 761
If you have already received a voucher for a cancelled flight and wish to opt for a refund, you will be able to do so. The technical conditions are in preparation and will be detailed here as soon as possible.
Jun 11, 2020, 10:17 pm
#772
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
[QUOTE=Rambol;32448263]AF/KLM has adjusted their refund policy to finally comply with the law. .[/QUOTEI
In part because they started to receive some of the bailout money. Hence they can afford to pay.
In part because they started to receive some of the bailout money. Hence they can afford to pay.
Jun 11, 2020, 11:46 pm
#773
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bellevue, WA - AA EXP 3MM
Posts: 2,756
Could be an error by DOT. Even in the best of times, DOT staff sometimes make errors. These are not the best of times -- unprecedented complaint volume to DOT, I'm sure difficult for their staff, probably necessitating temps and rookies of various sorts. For others similarly situated, it could be appropriate to reply to an obviously-incorrect evaluation by DOT. Could also file a formal complaint per instructions on my site, if an initial informal complaint got an incorrect resolution.
Jun 12, 2020, 3:31 am
#774
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,301
I'm in a tricky position.
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.
I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.
Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?
Thanks for you inputs
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.
I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.
Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?
Thanks for you inputs
Jun 12, 2020, 3:44 am
#775
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 293
I'm in a tricky position.
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.
I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.
Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?
Thanks for you inputs
I had a booking in April which I cancelled before AF did because of the Covid situation. Got vouchers. That initial flight got eventually cancelled.
I used those vouchers for a new flight in June, naively thinking things would be back to normal by then.
THEN AF cancelled the june flight and I received vouchers.
Do you think AF will refund me, or will they argue I paid for the flight with a voucher so I'm not entitled to a cash refund?
If they do so, do you think I have a case arguing I got the first voucher because of a previously cancelled flight, which is technically but not chronologically correct?
Thanks for you inputs
Jun 12, 2020, 3:50 am
#776
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,301
My voucher has this:
"Restriction(s) / Restriction(s): (*M*NONREF EMD FOR FUTURE TRAVEL VALID 1YR ON AF-KL-DL-VS-KQ / REF ONLY AFTER 1YR FROM DOI **CORONAVIRUS**)"
Last edited by Benjh; Jun 12, 2020 at 3:54 am Reason: edited to add reference to voucher
Jun 12, 2020, 4:24 am
#777
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: SAS Eurobonus Silver, Accor Platinum, BA Blue
Posts: 28
In your case, you would just need to have availability in X on the outbound flights and V on the return flights, and they should be waiving the change fee. If those classes are no longer available, they will charge you the fare difference between X or V and the new booking class.
Are these fare codes somewhat regular or not (if you know)?
Jun 12, 2020, 10:57 am
#778
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,592
Booked ory/nce and Air France rebooked on a flight pm instead than morning.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.
there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.
I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but I’m being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that I’d like but they don’t reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they don’t pick up.
How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?
this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.
Thank you for your help.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.
there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.
I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but I’m being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that I’d like but they don’t reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they don’t pick up.
How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?
this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.
Thank you for your help.
Jun 12, 2020, 11:27 am
#779
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
Booked ory/nce and Air France rebooked on a flight pm instead than morning.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.
there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.
I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but I’m being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that I’d like but they don’t reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they don’t pick up.
How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?
this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.
Thank you for your help.
they changed the return to Cdg instead than Ory
they changed the return time for mid day instead that evening.
this a short week end trip so now this is now a day trip.
there are some other flights available more convenience for sale.
I can not change on the app.
I can change on the web site but I’m being told that there is no flight available, even in checking +/- 3 days which is not correct.
I tweet AF yesterday with a screenshot of the flights that I’d like but they don’t reply.
I waited 60 mns on hold and they don’t pick up.
How long do they usually take to reply to tweets ?
any other way to contact AF ?
this is not related to the fare as I was able to change / cancel 2 other tickets for the same route and same fare during Covid.
Thank you for your help.