Mar 17, 20, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Mar 10, 20, 5:20 am
#61
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: Flying Blue, Miles & Smiles
Posts: 374
Data points:
KLM said they would refund a BHX-CDG-BHX flight with no charges (but this flight did involve a cancelled flybe codeshare so was subject to a significant involuntary change anyway following their demise). Will have to confirm the refund is in full. Was booked 29Feb.
Flyingblue Redemption on AF: Said they would cancel and waive 50 euro cancellation fee, so full refund. Was booked in January.
Reason for cancellation, by the way, is because all my other schedules have been messed up and I am trying to make a clean slate to start again...
KLM said they would refund a BHX-CDG-BHX flight with no charges (but this flight did involve a cancelled flybe codeshare so was subject to a significant involuntary change anyway following their demise). Will have to confirm the refund is in full. Was booked 29Feb.
Flyingblue Redemption on AF: Said they would cancel and waive 50 euro cancellation fee, so full refund. Was booked in January.
Reason for cancellation, by the way, is because all my other schedules have been messed up and I am trying to make a clean slate to start again...
Last edited by ahopkins767; Mar 10, 20 at 5:27 am
Mar 10, 20, 8:01 am
#62
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: Delta GM; FB Plat; HHonors Diamond; Hertz PC; National EE
Posts: 187
"KLM US" actually has Delta staff handling those calls. Just as calling Delta in the Netherlands connects you to KLM staff. The folks in Atlanta should issue new tickets on 074 stock if you call in on the KL number, but they do mix that up on a regular basis. I've had 006 tickets reissued on 074 or 057 stock after a schedule change, and the other way around as well. With that in mind, I think they'll apply the KLM policy if you call their US office and explain.
Mar 10, 20, 8:47 am
#63
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 786
"KLM US" actually has Delta staff handling those calls. Just as calling Delta in the Netherlands connects you to KLM staff. The folks in Atlanta should issue new tickets on 074 stock if you call in on the KL number, but they do mix that up on a regular basis. I've had 006 tickets reissued on 074 or 057 stock after a schedule change, and the other way around as well. With that in mind, I think they'll apply the KLM policy if you call their US office and explain.
I also went through the contract of carriage of KLM. The contract of carriage appears to apply to all KL-coded flights, regardless of who issues it. I am not sure if that applies to waivers, but I may ask them to reissue a ticket on a 074 stock.
Mar 10, 20, 2:52 pm
#64
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 5,404
Does anybody know if the vouchers can be used only in whole, or partial as well?
I have a speculative trip planned for May, which I might or might not want to take... if I could then return it for vouchers and use them part by part to pay for travel as it comes, it would make an easy decision...
I have a speculative trip planned for May, which I might or might not want to take... if I could then return it for vouchers and use them part by part to pay for travel as it comes, it would make an easy decision...
Mar 10, 20, 8:08 pm
#65
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: HNL / SIN
Posts: 84
Was able to rebook a canceled (no reason given) flight for no additional fee (yay) but returning the next day (boo). have been trying to get in touch with KLM to ask about hotel vouchers. Can't get in touch with their Singapore office and when I finally got through calling the US line, they said they can't check anything on my ticket since it's issued from the Singapore website?
In cases like this where my canceled and rebooked flight results in requiring an overnight stay, can anyone share their experience on getting any hotel voucher/stay? Also wondering whether i can get this either at the airport when I check in or land (canceled flight is the returning flight), instead of having to potentially go back to the airport to get this?
In cases like this where my canceled and rebooked flight results in requiring an overnight stay, can anyone share their experience on getting any hotel voucher/stay? Also wondering whether i can get this either at the airport when I check in or land (canceled flight is the returning flight), instead of having to potentially go back to the airport to get this?
Mar 11, 20, 2:29 am
#66
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FR
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 243
If these vouchers are no different than others, it depends what you mean by partial.
You can't decide to use only x % of the value of a voucher to pay for a ticket (e.g. you can't decide to use only 50€ of a 150€-voucher to pay for a 300€-ticket), but if the value of the voucher is higher than the cost of the ticket (e.g. a 300€-voucher to pay for a 150€-ticket), another voucher will be edited with the residual value (I am not sure whether this voucher has the same expiration date or if it expires 1 year after its edition).
You can't decide to use only x % of the value of a voucher to pay for a ticket (e.g. you can't decide to use only 50€ of a 150€-voucher to pay for a 300€-ticket), but if the value of the voucher is higher than the cost of the ticket (e.g. a 300€-voucher to pay for a 150€-ticket), another voucher will be edited with the residual value (I am not sure whether this voucher has the same expiration date or if it expires 1 year after its edition).
Mar 11, 20, 2:46 am
#67
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London / Amsterdam
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 212
Just for fun I tried changing my booking from LHR - AMS - CPT from Y to J and in the price offer, they charged £120 change fee.. haha 
Looking at changing the Y trip to another date, there's some refund involved for earlier days as well, in the same class of course.
Looking at changing the Y trip to another date, there's some refund involved for earlier days as well, in the same class of course.
Mar 11, 20, 3:13 am
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,335
Johan
Mar 11, 20, 4:57 am
#69
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: Flying Blue, Miles & Smiles
Posts: 374
I recently asked about hotels regarding a flight change that saw an overnight stop in Amsterdam. Was politely told I would shoulder the hotel cost. So I cancelled.
You might find travel insurance will pay out for delay - but it depends on how much time between now and the flight.
You might find travel insurance will pay out for delay - but it depends on how much time between now and the flight.
Mar 11, 20, 5:21 am
#70
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 5,404
If these vouchers are no different than others, it depends what you mean by partial.
You can't decide to use only x % of the value of a voucher to pay for a ticket (e.g. you can't decide to use only 50€ of a 150€-voucher to pay for a 300€-ticket), but if the value of the voucher is higher than the cost of the ticket (e.g. a 300€-voucher to pay for a 150€-ticket), another voucher will be edited with the residual value (I am not sure whether this voucher has the same expiration date or if it expires 1 year after its edition).
You can't decide to use only x % of the value of a voucher to pay for a ticket (e.g. you can't decide to use only 50€ of a 150€-voucher to pay for a 300€-ticket), but if the value of the voucher is higher than the cost of the ticket (e.g. a 300€-voucher to pay for a 150€-ticket), another voucher will be edited with the residual value (I am not sure whether this voucher has the same expiration date or if it expires 1 year after its edition).
Thanks for confirmation.
Mar 11, 20, 6:18 am
#71
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London / Amsterdam
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 212
In this case, the fare difference was at approx £3,500 one-way, which makes we wonder why this £120 isn't waived..
Mar 12, 20, 3:29 am
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,335
Mar 12, 20, 11:11 am
#75
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,931
