COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

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Old Apr 30, 20, 10:27 pm   -   Wikipost
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Wiki Link
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/commo...917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/pre...date/index.htm

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellane...ieu-of-refund/


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Old May 16, 20, 8:00 am
  #676  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 67
Hi there I rebooked a cancelled June trip to Tokyo for September, but I am now worried if AF doesn't cancel the flights despite restrictions continuing for Japan (i.e. 14 day quarantine). What would happen as the trip is only 7 days so it's not even possible to fulfil the 14 day quarantine?

It may have been silly to rebook, but I was really very limited with choice a few weeks ago. Taking the voucher wasn't an option in case they went bust, since as a student losing £800 is a huge amount for me. Also even in the case they are able to resume flights, the voucher value would almost certainly not stretch as far as Tokyo when flight prices increase.

I almost feel scammed out of my money, with any option being a potential loss. Even more so now with their latests changes to refunds...
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Old May 16, 20, 8:10 am
  #677  
 
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Originally Posted by jamestg View Post
Hi there I rebooked a cancelled June trip to Tokyo for September, but I am now worried if AF doesn't cancel the flights despite restrictions continuing for Japan (i.e. 14 day quarantine). What would happen as the trip is only 7 days so it's not even possible to fulfil the 14 day quarantine?

It may have been silly to rebook, but I was really very limited with choice a few weeks ago. Taking the voucher wasn't an option in case they went bust, since as a student losing £800 is a huge amount for me. Also even in the case they are able to resume flights, the voucher value would almost certainly not stretch as far as Tokyo when flight prices increase.

I almost feel scammed out of my money, with any option being a potential loss. Even more so now with their latests changes to refunds...
I would hold my cards here. Odds are the situation will change and you can enjoy your trip or the airline will cancel the flight as it would non-profitable. In the latter case, you could push for a cash refund.

What I definitely wouldn't do is cancel before the airline does. The reality is that a flag carrier like KLM is unlikely to go bankrupt, the government will have to support it.
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Old May 16, 20, 10:36 pm
  #678  
 
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Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
No, because EU261 requires a refund within 7 days of the request.
Well, airlines like AF and KLM don't respect this law at present, and French or Dutch authorities don't care either...
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Old May 17, 20, 4:07 am
  #679  
 
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On a different note from the refund issue, now that they are allowing rebooking for trips departing up to Aug 31, I went online to check possibilities of rebooking my family's long-ago booked summer vacation to a Christmas vacation and found that the site would not let me choose any dates past September 15 for the new dates. Anyone else have similar issues?
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Old May 17, 20, 4:46 am
  #680  
 
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
Which means this is equal to the voucher, which is also refundable after 12 months... Just that the voucher you can already use before.
Equal except the refund process for the voucher can start after a year, which could then take another year!
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Old May 19, 20, 4:29 am
  #681  
 
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After having exhorted 57 airlines to change their practice and respect passengers rigths (see post #523), French consumers association "UFC Que Choisir" is taking 20 airlines, including AF/KL, to court (sorry, link in French):

https://www.quechoisir.org/action-uf...iennes-n79519/
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Old May 19, 20, 6:45 am
  #682  
 
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Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
Same revised policy for Air France.
Even after today's updates, I couldn't find AF revised policy on their site. Only eared this on french news. Do you have any link ?
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Old May 20, 20, 7:59 am
  #683  
 
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A data point for refunds. I had 2 one way tickets ( FLL-ATL-CDG-AMM ) codeshared DL/AF in which a significant schedule changed occurred ( FLL-ATL-AMS-CDG-AMM ). Called Amex Travel to see if a full refund was possible; held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script. Good to know AF has loosened their stance on refunds.
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Old May 20, 20, 8:04 am
  #684  
 
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Originally Posted by Brandinho1 View Post
A data point for refunds. I had 2 one way tickets ( FLL-ATL-CDG-AMM ) codeshared DL/AF in which a significant schedule changed occurred ( FLL-ATL-AMS-CDG-AMM ). Called Amex Travel to see if a full refund was possible; held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script. Good to know AF has loosened their stance on refunds.
thatís good news!
Iím waiting to hear what happens here in Europe where there is no DOT....
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Old May 20, 20, 1:43 pm
  #685  
 
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held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script.
Words are cheap.
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Old May 20, 20, 2:09 pm
  #686  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
Words are cheap.
LOL, too true. There's a whole Facebook group of people who were told "Yes" for a refund, and they got a refund in the form of a voucher. KLM/AF dropped the ball, and appears to have made a lot of people very disappointed.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2539386469633337
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Old May 21, 20, 4:56 am
  #687  
 
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After my successful chargeback via AMEX NL of a cancelled KL flight, I have been contacted by AMEX again, saying KLM had gotten back and they needed proof that I had tried to get my money back first. I have provided that now, but I cannot believe the balls KLM have to try to dispute a chargeback for publicly know violations of EU passenger rights.
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Old May 21, 20, 5:50 am
  #688  
 
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Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
After my successful chargeback via AMEX NL of a cancelled KL flight, I have been contacted by AMEX again, saying KLM had gotten back and they needed proof that I had tried to get my money back first. I have provided that now, but I cannot believe the balls KLM have to try to dispute a chargeback for publicly know violations of EU passenger rights.

unbelievable.
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Old May 23, 20, 9:29 am
  #689  
 
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Some confusion here: AF has cancelled the return flight of a round-trip to Brazil. Rather than re-book it to a later date (not sure when I can go to Brazil again) I would like a refund for that cancelled flight. The ticket is in fully refundable booking classes (outbound was in P, return in J) - so how will they treat this? Like "normally", i.e. re-price this as a one way ticket and then refund the difference if there is any? Or take the part of the ticket that corresponds to the return flight and reimburse that, leaving the flown outbound part as if it had been part of a round-trip?

The former would clearly not be desirable. But something tells me that they're just pulling off exactly that on me. I had asked for a refund more than a week ago already, nothing happened, and now that I called again they said something which sounded more like the "reprice this as a one-way". But even after asking again they couldn't be clear.

Any experience with situations like this?

For the record, I'd even be happy with a voucher, it's the amount of the refund that worries me.
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Old May 23, 20, 9:53 am
  #690  
 
Join Date: May 2020
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Does anyone know when the flights between CDG and destinations in Croatia will resume? any info maybe?
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