Old Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
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Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


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COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old Mar 30, 2020, 2:55 pm
  #391  
 
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Thanks, I will give this a go before calling them. No interest in a voucher, at all.
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Old Mar 30, 2020, 4:43 pm
  #392  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
As a side note, I've been invited to apply for Centurion after spending maybe 6-8k on my Amex Plat in 6 months or so.
where ? in slovakia or in netherlands ??

Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
I have little doubt that I would be denied if I ever actually applied, but it was interesting to see that they even deemed me valuable enough to send a booklet.
so i guess they lowered the entry level quite a lot over the past few years , and it is possible that they saw a sudden peak in you CC spending , so they forecasted that you might be fit the invitation
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Old Mar 30, 2020, 6:13 pm
  #393  
 
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Originally Posted by mfkne
I was able to find the form that KLM usually use for cash refunds and submitted my request this way. Let’s see what happens - with any luck it’s processes semi-automatically and will slip through. If you wanna have a go yourself, it’s at https://refunds.klm.com/rps/Forms/frmMain.aspx
Thanks. I saw that on Twitter the other day and couldn't find it afterwards. It's unlikely to work, but I will give it a try anyway.

From what I hear, Lufthansa Group is following the same path... and BA is making it difficult, but I got a refund from LOT Polish Airlines no bother.

I expected more from KLM, but perhaps over the years I fell into brand attachment trap... Personally I will never look at them the same again. I guess it takes a 100 years to build a reputation, but you can flush it down the toilet in less than a month...
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Old Mar 30, 2020, 8:56 pm
  #394  
 
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An update from my end: I had filed for a chargeback with AMEX (Dutch, FB Platinum) on the 26th and was notified today that they have approved it and are crediting the money.
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Old Mar 31, 2020, 2:12 am
  #395  
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Great news! Thank you for informing me.
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Old Mar 31, 2020, 2:40 am
  #396  
 
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Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph
FWIW in the Netherlands, I contacted ICS cards which is the largest creditcard supplier in NL. According to a spokesperson, a voucher is considered a sufficient alternative for a refund. Only if no 'equivalent offer such as a voucher or free rebooking' is provided, a chargeback can be initiated.
I am still waiting for a response from AMEX (NL).
Correction: if the alternative offered by the provider is "not considered to be sufficient by the cardholder", a chargeback may still be initiated. Every claim will be reviewed individually on its merits. ICS calls upon cardholders to accept alternatives, such as vouchers, where possible. But in contrast to my previous interpretation, a voucher is not necessarily and automatically considered a sufficient alternative which would disqualify one for a chargeback request.
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Old Mar 31, 2020, 2:55 am
  #397  
 
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
As a side note, I've been invited to apply for Centurion after spending maybe 6-8k on my Amex Plat in 6 months or so. I have little doubt that I would be denied if I ever actually applied, but it was interesting to see that they even deemed me valuable enough to send a booklet.
Correct, I did not want to reply to the full post on this form, but I was actually invited too for Centurion a couple years ago. I was just not feeling speding more than a month of paycheck in "welcome" fees and something like 3k per year for a credit card, even if made of whetever stainless steel they have been using. I was the first one surprised to receive the invitation though, by email, post and also had a phone call with an Amex advisor to discuss the benefits of the card. I am however not sure Centurion card holders are enjoying better treatment from Amex those days ?
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Old Mar 31, 2020, 4:17 am
  #398  
 
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I would certainly hope so...

Originally Posted by fifty_two
where ? in slovakia or in netherlands ??
Slovakia no longer has Amex, and didn't have Platinum even when there was basic Amex on offer.
This was in NL.
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Old Apr 1, 2020, 2:21 am
  #399  
 
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I checked my Flying Blue/AF dashboard today. So it looks like my reservation has finally disappeared (the flights were all cancelled anyway), but still no voucher or refund. Gave AF a call today (surprisingly no wait time on the french language line), they said they've still a few dozen requests in process. Lady said they have fewer personnel working in their department lately so it's taking longer. So i'll wait a bit longer.
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Old Apr 1, 2020, 6:25 am
  #400  
 
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Originally Posted by mfkne
An update from my end: I had filed for a chargeback with AMEX (Dutch, FB Platinum) on the 26th and was notified today that they have approved it and are crediting the money.
I assume this would work only if you booked directly with the airline, as opposed to an OTA?
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Old Apr 1, 2020, 8:42 am
  #401  
 
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Last week I initiated a chargeback on my US based AMEX for a KLM ticket MSP-AMS-SIN ($12xx) RT that had been cancelled by KLM, same as all of you.

Then I remembered why I booked this ticket, and it was to reach my US$25K threshhold in late December, giving me 10,000 DL MQM.
I called back to AMEX and asked what my total spend would be for 2019 if this is credited back.... aaaaand it's $24,875. Dang!

So, I cancelled the chargeback and will grab a cheapish KLM business class fare for other city pairs for either August or October/December, giving me some decent MQMs. MSP-AMS-SIN in Y would have been a long trip, though I'd already gotten Comfort Plus seating.

Anyone know if I take the voucher, then July/August flights are cancelled, does this count as my one "change" or would this new ticket be governed by the new ticket's fare rules?
thanks
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Old Apr 1, 2020, 11:09 pm
  #402  
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Originally Posted by longlife
I assume this would work only if you booked directly with the airline, as opposed to an OTA?
you can initiate a chargeback against OTA as well if “services were not received” as in your flight was cancelled and not acceptable alternatives were offered.
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Old Apr 3, 2020, 1:20 am
  #403  
 
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EU blocks dutch plan to let airlines give vouchers for canceled flights :


ttps://nltimes.nl/2020/04/02/eu-blocks-dutch-plan-let-airlines-give-passengers-vouchers-canceled-flights
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Old Apr 3, 2020, 9:53 am
  #404  
 
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My lawyer sent a letter to AF requesting an immediate refund or we will take it to court and demand compensation and legal costs.
Received the following reply:


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Old Apr 3, 2020, 9:55 am
  #405  
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AF is stalling you. They wait for the European Commission and European Parliament to disable EC261/2004 article 8a.
Better to sue now!

Moreover, AF is admiting to owe you a refund. But they don't spell out whether that refund will be made in cash or vouchers.
So that letter helps you nothing.
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