Apr 14, 2020, 2:13 pm
Last edit by: Gajan
URL to information: https://www.flyingblue.nl/en/news/coronavirus-updates
Update 16/4/20
Update 15/4/20
From the Q&A that will be shared later today:
2. Will I keep my current level in my next qualification period?
In case your qualification period ends between March 2020 and February 2021, you will keep your current level even if you don’t reach the XP objective. Some examples:
A Silver member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 120 XP, your counter will be offset by 100 XP to maintain Silver and you keep a surplus of 20 XP.
· If you have gained 65 XP, we will credit the missing 35 XP and then offset your counter with 100 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Silver level.
A Gold member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 220 XP, your counter will be offset by 180 XP to maintain Gold and you keep a surplus of 40 XP.
· If you have gained 120 XP, we will credit the missing 60 XP and then offset your counter with 180 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Gold level.
A Platinum member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 450 XP, your counter will be offset by 300 XP to maintain Platinum and you keep a surplus of 150 XP.
· If you have gained 250 XP, we will credit the missing 50 XP and then offset your counter with 300 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Platinum level.
3. When will I see this XP measure in my online account?
Not until the first day in your new qualification period will you see in your online account that your current level is maintained. In your activity overview, you’ll find either ‘XP offered by Flying Blue’ with the number of XP that are credited to reach the XP objective, or ‘Counter offset’ with the XP objective deducted from your counter. A new card will be sent to you before your current card expires. The validity date of your digital card will be updated at the end of your current qualification period.
4. I want to upgrade to a higher level. Will I also be compensated?
Our measures enable Elite members to maintain their current level. It is not applicable for members who wish to upgrade to a higher level.
5. Will I keep my current XP balance in my next qualification period?
We will automatically offset the number of XP needed to maintain or upgrade a level. Any surplus XP will remain on your account. Some examples:
A Silver member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 120 XP, your counter will be offset by 100 XP to maintain Silver and you keep a surplus of 20 XP.
· If you have gained 65 XP, we will credit the missing 35 XP and then offset your counter with 100 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Silver level.
A Gold member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 220 XP, your counter will be offset by 180 XP to maintain Gold and you keep a surplus of 40 XP.
· If you have gained 120 XP, we will credit the missing 60 XP and then offset your counter with 180 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Gold level.
A Platinum member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 450 XP, your counter will be offset by 300 XP to maintain Platinum and you keep a surplus of 150 XP.
· If you have gained 250 XP, we will credit the missing 50 XP and then offset your counter with 300 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Platinum level.
6. What will happen to my years counting towards Platinum for life?
If you keep your current level during your next qualification period based on our special measures that membership year will count towards the 10 consecutive years needed to qualify for Platinum for life. For example:
· You have been a Platinum member for 9 consecutive years, and your current qualification period will end on 31 December 2020. Because of our measures, you will be maintained and reach 10 consecutive years of Platinum. On 1 January 2021, your new qualificaiton period starts and on 1 April 2021, we will change your level to Platinum for life.
· You have been a Platinum member for 7 consecutive years, and your current qualification period will end on 31 December 2020. Because of our measures, you will be maintained. On 1 January 2021, your 8th consecutive year of Platinum will start.
Update 16/4/20
At this stage measurements which have been taken are for status maintain only. We are well aware that customers can also be impacted by less chance for an upgrade and/or reduced opportunities to carry over XP to the next year. We are constantly monitoring the evolution of the situation and are adjusting our policies accordingly. Should there be additional measures to compensate those impacts too, we will let our Flying Blue members know as soon as possible.
In challenging times like today, travelling has become more difficult due to reasons beyond your control. In these trying times, we want to remove any uncertainty you may have about your Flying Blue Elite level.
We have put the following actions in place:
- We will maintain all Flying Blue Elite members with a qualification period ending between March 2020 and February 2021 for another 12 months.
- We will prevent all Miles from expiring between now and the end of 2020 for all our Explorer members.
We have put the following actions in place:
- We will maintain all Flying Blue Elite members with a qualification period ending between March 2020 and February 2021 for another 12 months.
- We will prevent all Miles from expiring between now and the end of 2020 for all our Explorer members.
2. Will I keep my current level in my next qualification period?
In case your qualification period ends between March 2020 and February 2021, you will keep your current level even if you don’t reach the XP objective. Some examples:
A Silver member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 120 XP, your counter will be offset by 100 XP to maintain Silver and you keep a surplus of 20 XP.
· If you have gained 65 XP, we will credit the missing 35 XP and then offset your counter with 100 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Silver level.
A Gold member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 220 XP, your counter will be offset by 180 XP to maintain Gold and you keep a surplus of 40 XP.
· If you have gained 120 XP, we will credit the missing 60 XP and then offset your counter with 180 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Gold level.
A Platinum member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 450 XP, your counter will be offset by 300 XP to maintain Platinum and you keep a surplus of 150 XP.
· If you have gained 250 XP, we will credit the missing 50 XP and then offset your counter with 300 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Platinum level.
3. When will I see this XP measure in my online account?
Not until the first day in your new qualification period will you see in your online account that your current level is maintained. In your activity overview, you’ll find either ‘XP offered by Flying Blue’ with the number of XP that are credited to reach the XP objective, or ‘Counter offset’ with the XP objective deducted from your counter. A new card will be sent to you before your current card expires. The validity date of your digital card will be updated at the end of your current qualification period.
4. I want to upgrade to a higher level. Will I also be compensated?
Our measures enable Elite members to maintain their current level. It is not applicable for members who wish to upgrade to a higher level.
5. Will I keep my current XP balance in my next qualification period?
We will automatically offset the number of XP needed to maintain or upgrade a level. Any surplus XP will remain on your account. Some examples:
A Silver member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 120 XP, your counter will be offset by 100 XP to maintain Silver and you keep a surplus of 20 XP.
· If you have gained 65 XP, we will credit the missing 35 XP and then offset your counter with 100 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Silver level.
A Gold member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 220 XP, your counter will be offset by 180 XP to maintain Gold and you keep a surplus of 40 XP.
· If you have gained 120 XP, we will credit the missing 60 XP and then offset your counter with 180 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Gold level.
A Platinum member with a qualification period ending in April 2020:
· If you have gained 450 XP, your counter will be offset by 300 XP to maintain Platinum and you keep a surplus of 150 XP.
· If you have gained 250 XP, we will credit the missing 50 XP and then offset your counter with 300 XP to reset your XP counter to 0 and maintain your Platinum level.
6. What will happen to my years counting towards Platinum for life?
If you keep your current level during your next qualification period based on our special measures that membership year will count towards the 10 consecutive years needed to qualify for Platinum for life. For example:
· You have been a Platinum member for 9 consecutive years, and your current qualification period will end on 31 December 2020. Because of our measures, you will be maintained and reach 10 consecutive years of Platinum. On 1 January 2021, your new qualificaiton period starts and on 1 April 2021, we will change your level to Platinum for life.
· You have been a Platinum member for 7 consecutive years, and your current qualification period will end on 31 December 2020. Because of our measures, you will be maintained. On 1 January 2021, your 8th consecutive year of Platinum will start.
COVID-19: status extensions confirmed
Apr 21, 2020, 12:20 am
#301
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
Posts: 579
No sir, you were the one who thought having 5 or 6 mid tier statuses was a big deal and bragworthy! I just thought that I would enlighten you as to what having status really meant. Low and mid tier status in reality mean little for the airlines and often few real perks for fliers. I mean seriously if I for example targeted only mid tier status, I guess I could have done what 14 airlines a year every year for who knows how many years! In any case, if all you have is mid-tier status, why do you care about the lounges so much? If you are flying "premium cabins where it matters" I assume you mean long haul, and if you are only earning mid-tier status, you are not flying long haul very often, so therefore barely ever using lounges? So therefore not using the lounges that much? I mean the really funny thing is that I "and most people I know" (because I have never seen anyone reference their friends so much as this thread) who are serious FF'ers try to spend as little time at the airport as possible, meaning often skipping the lounge(s) most of the time, I probably see a lounge one out of 4 or 5 flights. I mean if you think that "status plays limited role" then why on earth do you care that FB is extending status, especially as it has already been proven to you that there is no difference at all between this years and next years numbers. Seriously though at the end of the day what you are really upset about is that your big 208 XP's are not being carried forward, because you either so diligently carried them forward over the years, or because you managed to take a couple of big trips in the first 2 months of this year, and others will receive the same benefit and get their status renewed because they "didn't earn" it? Seriously?
I said it numerous times up this thread - I don't care about my own status. Yes, FB didn't help me anyhow and I'm fine with that. I won't achieve Platinum? I don't care, so be it. But I also understand people who are really upset by that policy, and I do think they have a right to feel that way, so calling them 'whiners' is a bit condescending, don't you find? The rest was just an attempt (good or bad) to demonstrate why, I think, it is unfair to them (myself included), moreover when this policy felt rushed (at least to me, you seem to have different opinion) for no particular reason, requiring likely patchwork in the future and not really achieving any commercial goals.
I think I'm done now with my venting, I keep repeating myself without much success, and the main point I wanted to put forward gets more and more buried.
Apr 21, 2020, 12:50 am
#302
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
Posts: 579
For the sake of argument, let's build on that one then.
Let's assume that lounge space gets reduced. Part of that shouldn't be a problem as there will be less capacity in the market, so less passengers to use the lounges. Then you have the passengers who use the lounges. Who are they:
You are free to find a synonym for the W-word, but in my eyes and in those of many others, that is what it is.
Then there is the other argument that came up: "if I had received the same push I could have kept more XP and I would have made it one level up, from Gold to Platinum". True. But there again, all I can say is that (i) get real, these are extraordinary times, we all suffer more or less - and reaching your status promotion a little later is a minor suffering, and (ii) the intent of FB was not to put everybody in a situation where they would have been as if nothing had happened, but just not to let people fall further. Big difference.
Let's assume that lounge space gets reduced. Part of that shouldn't be a problem as there will be less capacity in the market, so less passengers to use the lounges. Then you have the passengers who use the lounges. Who are they:
- Status card holders that have requalified by earning the XPs - surely we agree that they have a right to use the lounges, don't we?
- Status card holders who would have requalified in a normal year but now needed a push from FB - you don't seem to mind those either, so they are OK to use the lounge
- Status card holders who would not have requalified but now did thanks to the push - you feel they got something they didn't deserve. Fine. There aren't that many of them, as described above.
You are free to find a synonym for the W-word, but in my eyes and in those of many others, that is what it is.
Then there is the other argument that came up: "if I had received the same push I could have kept more XP and I would have made it one level up, from Gold to Platinum". True. But there again, all I can say is that (i) get real, these are extraordinary times, we all suffer more or less - and reaching your status promotion a little later is a minor suffering, and (ii) the intent of FB was not to put everybody in a situation where they would have been as if nothing had happened, but just not to let people fall further. Big difference.
About second point, there are 2 parts. One part that I'm trying to highlight: you say one group of people should just eat it up. I say, give yourself time and think of a policy that hardly unfair to anyone, there is no rush. I still couldn't see any real weaknesses in policies I suggested. There was something about PFL, but even that is easy to fix given enough thinking. Second part is of course a bit personal to my situation. I will hardly be able to achieve my desired status (Platinum) a bit later: by the time normal traffic returns, it will be already too late. Now, to demonstrate what difference it makes. If I do nothing now... After a year I will be downgraded to silver. Or I have to accumulate another 180 XPs to bring it to a reasonable status. If I value XP at 7 EUR that is around 1260 EUR to keep gold. And now compare it to situation where I would need to accumulate 92 XP to achieve Platinum, so spend another 644 EUR to get same outcome (actually a better one, because it will also bring me a year of extra bonus miles, and I have to spend less time in air to get at the status (and I really don't like XP runs). So the difference of ~600 EUR and approx. twice less time in the air. Now, I'm just over Gold threshold, so my numbers are not yet that bad. But what about someone who is at 260-270? It's quite a bit of money difference for some people, and they definitely justified in my vocabulary to be upset and needing to vent without being judged.
Apr 21, 2020, 1:02 am
#303
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,724
You know, way back when (the first decade of the 2000's) one needed to fly 100k a year to get Platinum (rather than the 75K that was later brought in and then more recently XP's), also there were no carry over miles, in some years I earned 200k status miles. None carried over. Twice before when there were crisis, they either extended status or severely reduced criteria, neither had any meaning to me..........because I had already surpassed the criteria.
There used to be a carry-over of anything above 115k level miles, for Platinums.
(For most platinums, the threshold was 70k level miles, so you had to reach almost 165% of the target to get a rollover. In terms of XPs, that would be the equivalent these days of only getting a rollover of anything over 493XP earned in a single year. For FR/MC residents, it required achieving 125% of the target to get a rollover!)
Apr 21, 2020, 4:24 am
#304
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,042
In an Olympic race, you would feel a little aggrieved if you had trained hard, won the race and then found Gold medals had also been handed out to the second and third placed runners. They may not have had the opportunity to train as much as you but that does not normally count at the end of a race...
If we need to stay with sport analogues, then best analogue I can come up with is that you are mad, because in a qualifying heat, you won the advance to next round, but a streaker came out to the track and thrown themselves under the foot of the people behind you and now they get a chance to re-do. How very unfair! They should have been as fast as you and outran the streaker!
Your artificial example to show your point feels, hm...artificial, just to support it. We all know that status (plastic card, golden colour in your profile on klm.com) cannot by itself be a reward. The real reward is what this status can bring to you. And this is where the resources start to get scarce: whether its overcrowded lounges (they are not going to build new ones by decreasing management's salary so that customers don't have to pay for them), longer waits in queues for priority boarding or security, increased competition for better seats on a plane, decreased purchasing power of collected miles - and this is just a start, because once they realize there are too many elites, they will see what can be 'optimized away'. In a few years people might think this particular (selective) giveaway had nothing to do with enhancements introduced, but I tend to think there will be relationship.
Since you seem to be under impression that they know what they are doing, maybe you can share it with me? What exactly they are trying to achieve with that? Just don't tell me general nonsense about valuing their customers and showing appreciation. They are business and any decision they take should somehow be with an idea of improving the business. So what kind of improvements they hope to get with that?
I, for one, do not share your believe that FB had any idea what their goal was: to me it's pretty obvious because that's already second measure they published and yet lots of people I personally know are upset, while others, as demonstrated in this thread, didn't feel the need to fly with AF/KL anymore in current cycle. If their business goal was to reduce demand and piss some customers off, then it's another question all together of course.
I, for one, do not share your believe that FB had any idea what their goal was: to me it's pretty obvious because that's already second measure they published and yet lots of people I personally know are upset, while others, as demonstrated in this thread, didn't feel the need to fly with AF/KL anymore in current cycle. If their business goal was to reduce demand and piss some customers off, then it's another question all together of course.
Exactly that. The marketing approach about it is really annoying. One would think they can filter out those who already qualified anyways with one single SQL query and send them somewhat customized e-mail without sounding like 'we care about you and that's why you get nothing'.
You call it competitive world, I call it herd mentality. As I wrote in another post, there are so many FF travelers these days that have statuses with a few airlines, that delaying your response by a month or two won't make any difference. Zero, nada. But what FB did, they rushed into something because others did (not true really, BA did something, Delta, but the rest were also very slow to respond). The result? You had a policy that didn't make much sense after just a month of introduction. Yet, they rush again, and introduce another one, which will for sure require fixing.
I think you seriously underestimate just how easy it is to have statuses with multiple airlines these days, if you are invested. And believe me, there are way more than 20K people worldwide who spend a bit of time on that. Just to give you an idea, I have at least mid-tear status with 5 airlines right now, or maybe 6...forgot already. Plus a few low tier once that I don't even know when expire. Ok, I do fly a bit and do spend a bit. But if I were doing it say 5 times less, maintaining meaningful status with at least 2 airlines and 2 hotel chains is a peace of cake. I was in China this year, and I can assure you there are more than 20K people in China alone. Everyone and their dog is some kind of elite.
It wasn't bragging, it was a short mention to demonstrate the point that quite a lot of people, myself included will typically build status with multiple airlines and when one of them would give it for free, reasonable thing would be to concentrate irrational flying with another airline.
Then you can come back when those who got gifted a status despite not flying enough get it lapsed again for not flying enough and no longer take away your benefits by not using them in the first place, because they are not flying enough (the irony is delightful)
Apr 21, 2020, 5:13 am
#305
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
irishguy, yes that is what they brought in circa 2007 IIRC, before that as I said it was 100k and no carrying forward. I am not going into the early 2000's with KL where you had a whole convoluted system of points that had nothing to do with actual mileage......
Apr 21, 2020, 5:27 am
#306
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 313
if you seriously consider having a frequent flyer status to be equivalent to being crowned best in the world in something, you seriously need to reexamine your priorities.
If we need to stay with sport analogues, then best analogue I can come up with is that you are mad, because in a qualifying heat, you won the advance to next round, but a streaker came out to the track and thrown themselves under the foot of the people behind you and now they get a chance to re-do. How very unfair! They should have been as fast as you and outran the streaker!
If we need to stay with sport analogues, then best analogue I can come up with is that you are mad, because in a qualifying heat, you won the advance to next round, but a streaker came out to the track and thrown themselves under the foot of the people behind you and now they get a chance to re-do. How very unfair! They should have been as fast as you and outran the streaker!
Apr 21, 2020, 6:04 am
#307
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,403
Apr 21, 2020, 6:30 am
#308
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum / Marriott Gold / Hilton Gold / IHG Platinum ... A former AA Platinum
Posts: 106
The unpleasant tone that this thread has taken (where folks tear down others for caring about this or that) is a real disappointment,
Nothing about this thread is a matter of morals or life or death. Actually, nothing about Flyertalk as a whole is anything other than a dissection of first world problems. So the notion of 'whiners' versus, on the other side reasonable moralists who are somehow also self-tasked with defending the interest of AFKL or argue their side (I should hope the companies are quite competent at arguing their own side) is just ad hominem and unnecessary
If the goal of exposing an argument is to shut up the other side (which is how quite a bit of the latest comments read), versus showing another argument, the conversation doesn't end in anything positive. Even if a side stops to talk, this is no 'victory' (and the conversation will certainly end - in my case for example, I do have rejoinders to some of the newer posts, but I feel disheartened enough by some of the participants approach to the discourse that I will simply shut up because I'm not interested in a run of bullies).
Nothing about this thread is a matter of morals or life or death. Actually, nothing about Flyertalk as a whole is anything other than a dissection of first world problems. So the notion of 'whiners' versus, on the other side reasonable moralists who are somehow also self-tasked with defending the interest of AFKL or argue their side (I should hope the companies are quite competent at arguing their own side) is just ad hominem and unnecessary
If the goal of exposing an argument is to shut up the other side (which is how quite a bit of the latest comments read), versus showing another argument, the conversation doesn't end in anything positive. Even if a side stops to talk, this is no 'victory' (and the conversation will certainly end - in my case for example, I do have rejoinders to some of the newer posts, but I feel disheartened enough by some of the participants approach to the discourse that I will simply shut up because I'm not interested in a run of bullies).
Last edited by gaukuser; Apr 21, 2020 at 6:31 am Reason: missing word
Apr 21, 2020, 12:45 pm
#309
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
For French/Monegasque residents, the carry-over was above 150K level miles.
Apr 22, 2020, 1:26 am
#311
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,724
Apr 22, 2020, 4:32 am
#312
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Of course that argument does not work in two cases:
(i) with travelers that regularly go between two places. Someone who travels between, say, Paris and Japan regularly could be attracted to prefer JL and their FFP. Or many people that went to different parts of Asia/Australia frequently, they are attracted by the ME3
(ii) witt travelers that don't live in Paris but in the French provinces. As they need to change anyway, they sometimes picked BA via LHR or LH via MUC rather than AF via CDG. In those cases AF has less of a home advantage.
Seeing this and many other factors did then also lead to the program to change and for qualification criteria to be the same world-wide.
Apr 22, 2020, 4:46 am
#313
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
For instance from NTE, there is only one flight around 6pm to MUC with LH which limits the possibility. And one or two flight to MAD with Iberia.
In the same time, there are 3 flights to AMS and 4-5 flights to CDG.
Apr 22, 2020, 5:30 am
#314
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zanzibar
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 1,319
For plats in 2020 it is really a good deal.. if you only have 1 roll over XP you gain 299 XP for free. If you have 300 or more XP in your account the difference is 599XP. So some plats will make plat for life due to the COVID-19 crisis and some will in the future not make plat for life because they could not fly enough to get enough roll over miles in 2020 to make it happen. That is sort of the discussion going on.
So yes, plats with roll over miles are worse off then plats with no roll over miles in 2020.
So yes, plats with roll over miles are worse off then plats with no roll over miles in 2020.
Apr 22, 2020, 6:52 am
#315
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,724
I meant more: any FR/MC resident who could have must surely have registered using a friend's/family member's/office or work foreign address 
I recall that, when BA had similarly reduced status qualification criteria for residents outside of the UK, the majority of posters on the BA boards here, although resident in the UK, had perfected the art of switching their residence to benefit both from reduced qualification targets, as well as taking advantage of other benefits which were only available to UK members.
I recall that, when BA had similarly reduced status qualification criteria for residents outside of the UK, the majority of posters on the BA boards here, although resident in the UK, had perfected the art of switching their residence to benefit both from reduced qualification targets, as well as taking advantage of other benefits which were only available to UK members.