AF/KL Investor day presentation - take aways

Old Nov 5, 19, 9:34 am
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AF/KL Investor day presentation - take aways

Hi All,

Today was the AF/KL investor day presentation. The presentation can be found on the site.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news...estor-day-2019

I created the thread so those interested can share thoughts based on information shared. I am currently traveling, so not able to go into all details at the moment, but maybe others are in the opportunity

Gajan
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Old Nov 5, 19, 10:42 am
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Originally Posted by Gajan View Post
Hi All,

Today was the AF/KL investor day presentation. The presentation can be found on the site.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news...estor-day-2019

I created the thread so those interested can share thoughts based on information shared. I am currently traveling, so not able to go into all details at the moment, but maybe others are in the opportunity

Gajan
Interesting document! Didn't know they were revamping J class on Short-haul, with Sky Priority and Lounge access. Some interesting slides regarding the fleet as well, though I don't know if it was already announced on FT
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Old Nov 5, 19, 11:03 am
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Several interesting points:

- KLM is planning to keep only 777 and 787 in the future (they will be transferring the 330 to AF I imagine? or have them retired)
- AF has a plan to make the horrible 777 COI on other aircraft like 332 and 350...
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Old Nov 5, 19, 11:14 am
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Interesting to see that KLM is certain that the 787 and 777 have a common pilot rating, while AF calls it a potential common pilot type rating.

If you can't even make things make things like a presentation consistent...
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Old Nov 5, 19, 11:55 am
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What's 777 COI?

Overall at least this corporate direction is clear. Joon was stupid; now they can concentrate on one low cost effort that is established.

The 'business class' on short and medium haul is still the same economy seating. Yay.
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Old Nov 5, 19, 12:37 pm
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Originally Posted by offvoice View Post
Didn't know they were revamping J class on Short-haul, with Sky Priority and Lounge access.
Ummm, didn't J class always have these?

Originally Posted by caliform View Post
What's 777 COI?
The "Caribbean and Indian Ocean" (COI) configuration, i.e. leisure heavy
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Old Nov 5, 19, 12:58 pm
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Slide 81: Air France domestic network

Implementation of more qualitative aircraft (Embraer 170/190,A220) and Business Cabin

Slide 85
Business cabin on all routes including domestic as of 2020

Slide 86
- dedicated front cabin
- blocked middle seat
- food and beverages dedicated offer (Champagne, wine, deluxe snacks)
- targeted launch Q1 2020

Last edited by JOUY31; Nov 5, 19 at 1:06 pm
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Old Nov 5, 19, 1:05 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Ummm, didn't J class always have these?
Currently no J on short-haul (i.e. domestic at AF)
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Old Nov 5, 19, 1:48 pm
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"Our Unique Competitive Advantages

Schiphol: Best-In-Class European Hub
"

Did they forget to take their meds?

Johan
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Old Nov 5, 19, 2:51 pm
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Indeed a very interesting slide deck. The main points I have noted :
- J on domestic
- very likely densification of Y long haul ;( even the 777COI (+4 seats !!)
- several domestic route cuts or frequency reduction to come
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Old Nov 5, 19, 3:52 pm
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I read that there might be a new lounge coming in 2020 at LAX? If this is true, this is good - especially with the current crappy Korean Air lounge for Elite+ pax.
I wonder how they plan to upgrade the 2F lounges...seems quite limited that they can improve further....

Cheers!
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Old Nov 5, 19, 3:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Rambol View Post
Interesting to see that KLM is certain that the 787 and 777 have a common pilot rating, while AF calls it a potential common pilot type rating.

If you can't even make things make things like a presentation consistent...
I consider it might be more of a union question for Air France rather than technical question. You can have single pool between 777 and 787, many airlines already do, I think KLM among them.

Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Ummm, didn't J class always have these?
Not on Domestic.

Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
"Our Unique Competitive Advantages

Schiphol: Best-In-Class European Hub
"

Did they forget to take their meds?

Johan
Eh.
There really isn't much competition, Schiphol sort of wins by default. LHR is not great by any means. CDG is confusing with all the different terminals and piers and somewhere you walk, somewhere there's a train and somewhere you take a bus, and somewhere you better go landside. FRA is just a mess. They can't even consistently put bus arrivals from EU into clean or unclean zone, you literally don't know which you end up with until the bus opens the door. MUC is good, but it's a secondary hub. MAD is fine within T4, but everybody sort of keeps forgetting it exists.
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Old Nov 5, 19, 4:16 pm
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Interesting slide deck, thank you.

Almost nothing on the FFP however, make of that what you will
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Old Nov 5, 19, 4:35 pm
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Regarding the slide with seat guru maps of A330, A350 and 777-300ER. It is just a comparison between Air France and low cost airlines on competitive routes. They don't want to implement COI cabins on the whole fleet they. They were just showing how keeping AF premium product and at the same time offering a lot of cheaper Y seats works better than having a lot of Y seat and few premium seats (far from an actual J seat). But Ben Smith did say that he would look into putting more seat in each aircraft whenever possible, while having the same number of premium seats.

You forgot to mention that there are a few other changes regarding J class:
- Pre order meals on long haul flights
- 80% highest standard J seats in 2020, 100% by 2022
- Only Michelin starred chef offered in J

They also want to implement more personal services for customers: I have no idea what it means?

The Hippocampe logo was on each and every AF slide but there was also another funny Air France invention logo : Cancel the Cancellations
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Old Nov 5, 19, 4:36 pm
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Originally Posted by nldogbert View Post
I read that there might be a new lounge coming in 2020 at LAX? If this is true, this is good - especially with the current crappy Korean Air lounge for Elite+ pax.
I wonder how they plan to upgrade the 2F lounges...seems quite limited that they can improve further....

Cheers!
The only new thing in this part is GVA. The rest is old news:
- LAX : was discussed in the AF lounge thread
- CDG2F : a single new larger lounge is being build between the 2 concourses, to replace the current 2 lounges. Again, this was discussed in the AF forum and you can even find pictures of the construction that has begun some months ago.
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