AF/KL Investor day presentation - take aways

Old Nov 5, 19, 7:13 pm
  #16  
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Interesting .....perhaps also for those of us from the home of the CSeries and who knew Ben from his days at AC.

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Old Nov 5, 19, 7:36 pm
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Page 24&26: they used SeatGuru's maps to highlight how they can densify the cabins...
Page 33: AF bleeding money from everywhere with Economy, except long-haul point to point as opposed to KL making money everywhere but European connections in Economy
Page 88: "Go on with partnership with Delta". Wow, impressive!

Not sure business for domestic will restore profitability.
Not a word on SkyTeam, which says a lot.
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Old Nov 5, 19, 9:19 pm
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Originally Posted by bodory View Post
Page 24&26: they used SeatGuru's maps to highlight how they can densify the cabins...
.....
Interesting. Is the extra space on the AF B789s taken up with more lavs or closets or galley space?

UA only seats 252 in their current B789, AC has 298, clearly reflective of what the AF presentation calls "Industry Leading Configuration"


Originally Posted by bodory View Post
....Not a word on SkyTeam, which says a lot.
Well, there was this little mention on page 8

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Old Nov 6, 19, 1:52 am
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No words on La Premiere ?
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Old Nov 6, 19, 2:04 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
Indeed a very interesting slide deck. The main points I have noted :
- J on domestic
- very likely densification of Y long haul ;( even the 777COI (+4 seats !!)
- several domestic route cuts or frequency reduction to come
I think this plan is not that bad, and possible that if AF have a better short-haul fleet, will re-open some domestic routes.

Hope the plan of BS will boost AF in the future

Also Slide 82: very good news, move some planes from domestic "business" routes to leaisure routes from Paris Orly on holidays

Last edited by AurelAF96; Nov 6, 19 at 2:14 am
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Old Nov 6, 19, 3:23 am
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Some good news and neat insight into the plans that the management has. Merci pour l'article.

But as someone who does presentations as part of my job description, let's see how the implementation actually goes.
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Old Nov 6, 19, 3:27 am
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Originally Posted by Bullspread View Post
No words on La Premiere ?
Spot on!

Not a word, and more importantly, not a single picture.

Days are numbered.
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Old Nov 6, 19, 3:29 am
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post

Well, there was this little mention on page 8
Not at once the word "Skyteam" in the presentation. And the pic on page 8 definitely highlights the JV, not the alliance.
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Old Nov 6, 19, 3:47 am
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Interesting read. Before reading about it here I came across an article in the Financial Times, which also mentioned that on the news AFKL shares dropped 4.6%. Not sure how they closed though.

The undertone of "KLM is great already, let's continue that. AF still isn't where it needs to be and drags the group's performance downwards" is everywhere. At least they are open about it, where in the past they often hid the individual performances.

Some interesting things in there. One thing was a real eye-opener for me: how the agreed relative growth of AF vs. KL constrained them to put more Y seats and less premium seats on AF planes. Moving to different KPIs (and a couple of other things) now allows them to put more premium seats on AF planes. Maybe that also means more Premiere seats, which would be in line with Ben Smith's point about making the product more difficult to market when it actually offers more destinations and flights.

On page 80 it says "full flat on all flights to US and Asia". Since by 2022 they want to have 100% full flat on long haul, by when would that "100% to US and Asia" be achieved? It would also mean no more A380s to New York, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Shanghai.... Sure, they could put 777-300ERs te replace the A380s on those routes (some drop in capacity), but then where to put the A380s? Conakry, Ouagadougou and Quito are tricky for this type of plane.

Business class on domestic: they used to have that until about 15 years ago on domestic feeder services to CDG. Now they bring it back across the domestic network, which is good for all those that at times pay very hefty prices. But then, it'll be a bit of a farce, as all they'll do is block a NEO seat between two other NEO seats - or do they plane to upgrade the domestic cabins to the standard of the European A319/A320/A321fleet? Probably not.

And, whilst not mentioned explicitly, I do hope that they'll move to 1-1 configuration on the E90 services on European routes for Business Class. Paying J fare and then being squeezed into a 2-2 configuration on those small planes is insulting.

I like the news about the GVA lounge, it needs an refresh. Someone knows when they'll start the work?
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Old Nov 6, 19, 3:54 am
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Originally Posted by bodory View Post
Spot on!

Not a word, and more importantly, not a single picture.

Days are numbered.
They did mention it once:



But I agree, that's not much.
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Old Nov 6, 19, 4:01 am
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Thanks for re-posting. That image showed up as about 300 lines of computer code ;-)
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Old Nov 6, 19, 4:35 am
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Thanks for re-posting. That image showed up as about 300 lines of computer code ;-)
Yes, it seems that Flyertalk's editor makes you think that the copy/paste of an image works, but it does not
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Old Nov 6, 19, 5:58 am
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Who writes this stuff?

"Empower employees to be 'the best of themselves' " ​​​​​​
​​​​​​
Duh? What? Come again?

"Excel in customer intimacy"

Exactly what extra services will FAs be expected to provide?

Johan
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Old Nov 6, 19, 6:46 am
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
Some interesting things in there. One thing was a real eye-opener for me: how the agreed relative growth of AF vs. KL constrained them to put more Y seats and less premium seats on AF planes. Moving to different KPIs (and a couple of other things) now allows them to put more premium seats on AF planes.
Yes, that caught my eye too.
Maybe that also means more Premiere seats
Could do although the impression I got was that it was more about the low number of C seats compared to the competition, although there is also that bit about making sure that Premiere is available consistently on routes on which it is offered.

where to put the A380s? Conakry, Ouagadougou and Quito are tricky for this type of plane.
I got the impression that the plan was to retire the A380s altogether although I have not checked the timescale for this so there may well be an interim issue.
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Old Nov 6, 19, 6:48 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
"Excel in customer intimacy"

Exactly what extra services will FAs be expected to provide?
Yes, they might need to improve their "me too" proofing.
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