Upgrade to business - O/CS availability, check-in upgrade
 

Hi,
I booked two tickets CDG-JNB (AF990) on 16/09/19. Both tickets are economy (R class). I am Sliver, fellow traveler Explorer. Tickets bought online on French Air France website. I also includes a flight back but CPT-AMS-CDG (so, with KLM).

I'm looking for the different possibilities to upgrade. After reading a lot on FT (including this interesting thread https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...lity-af-4.html), I still have some questions.

• When I manage my reservation on AF website, I have the upgrade button, but it says no seats are available for upgrade
• I asked Flying Blue on Facebook Messenger, same answer
• I checked Expert Flyer, it says 0O, 9C

After reading the above thread, it says that no O availability on EF doesn't mean that there is no seat upgrade available for Flying Blue members but that KVS can show them, under CS class code. I don't have KVS so I couldn't check.

• Does it worth to pay for KVS and check if any CS exists?
• Is it likely that new CS/O seats will appear, knowing the flight is in 3 weeks?
• Is my understanding correct that CS is a class available for miles upgrade?
• Is it correct that upgrades proposals from AF are targeted, sent just before the check-in? And/or also during the check-in process?

After reading on FT, my understanding is that the amount of miles for an upgrade isn't as variable as for the award tickets. Then, if someone has an estimation of miles needed for upgrade on CDG-JNB, I'll take it!

Also: I read a lot "DoD upgrades". What does that mean? I couldn't find it on FT glossary.

To try and answer your questions:
1. Would it make a difference if FB said no seats are available?
2. Not very likely, however if you are trying to upgrade with FB miles this is irrelevant (as also explained in the other thread)
3. See above
4. Yes

DoD is Day of Departure, if there are still seats available they might be available at the check-in counter/lounge/gate.

Thanks for your answers.
Ok, I will at least check everyday O availability. According this message https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30536151-post55.html from the same thread, Expert Flyer shows only O if partners (DL, AZ ,etc.) see it. Seems that only KVS can give O availability that Flying Blue agents see.

Not sure to understand point 2: you mean that it is likely to get upgrades with miles, but not awards?

Am I just being thick, or is FB's upgrade with miles thing totally opaque? All I want to do is find out how many miles it would cost me to upgrade a ticket if I make a purchase.....how hard can it be??

FB used to have a rigid scheme where upgrades were only available from a limited number of expensive fare classes, and for a small number of fixed mileage amounts, which were the same for all flights in certain zones. Back then, the kind of "mileage chart" your answer seeks was published. They eventually stopped publishing the chart, but it was derivable from their Mileage calculator.

However, now FB allows upgrades from almost all fare buckets, and no longer (at least in theory) requires that there is "O" availability. As such, the upgrade price will depend on lots of factors - the original fare you paid, what the load is like in the cabin on the flight you want to upgrade into, when you request the upgrade, and perhaps other factors that have not been published. "Prices" vary from route to route, from day to day, from flight to flight, with the type/fare/price of ticket you might have as one factor, and with the load factor in the flight as another factor. As such, there can be no "upgrade price" until you have actually bought a ticket, because the choice of ticket you buy (the fare basis of the ticket) is the primary starting point of any such calculation. There is no single price; your upgrade price will be a function of all these various inputs, none of which can be determined accurately until you actually have a ticket from which you wish to upgrade.

Think of it this way: there are as many possible "mileage prices" as there are "cash prices"; the price varies based on lots of factors.

However, my advice is: do not use FB miles for upgrades*. It is an incredibly poor use of miles. Your apparent strategy - of first choosing which flight to pick, in order to buy a ticket which then you want to upgrade - is also the worst possible way about going about upgrading.

But here is a handy rule of thumb: Unless you are going to buy a fully flex Y ticket, the upgrade price (if an upgrade is ever possible once you have settled on any particular flight) is likely to be as much as, or considerably more than, the "starting from" price offered to redeem outright into J on that same route Yes, it really is an exceptionally awful use of miles.

Given that you are apparently able to "choose" the date you fly on, use that flexibility instead to book an award seat in J outright. Use this flexibility to book a flight on a date for which the cheapest-possible mileage amount can be used for a J seat.

The amount required for an upgrade is often not much different than the amount it would be to redeem a J seat directly, so there is no point in going through this "upgrade" route when your goal is to travel in J and you clearly have flexibility to choose dates/flights.

(*unless there is a "good reason" to try doing so. Upgrades may make more sense if you end up with an economy booking that you have no control over - a ticket paid for by your employer or client for example - so that in such a case, you can possibly leverage your miles to "improve" a ticket over which you have no control. It never makes sense, when wishing to travel in J and being in full control of making the booking, to go via this "buy-economy-upgrade-afterwards" route, because you have thrown away all control over achieving that goal).

You'd be surprised how often KL senior pursers walk to my seat after boarding and fully settling down, luggage stored etc., proudly presenting their iPad showing an upgrade offer saying "you have more than enough miles Sir, and we have empty seats in J - would you like an upgrade for 90.000 miles?" They expect a yes or no, all I usually say is: I've already paid 900 euros for this ticket, you have to spend between 14k (plat) to 25k (explorer) euro (some 3.5 - 7 miles per euro spent if you consider the full ticket price), so after 32 paid flights I can upgrade one leg, after boarding. You can book a round-trip biz promo reward flight for that amount of miles, which includes the whole biz shebang incl. luggage allowance.

They usually don't wait for my 'yes' or 'no' to their offer.