What is the point of miles?
Mar 13, 2019, 7:45 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris/Milan
Programs: Flying Blue Platinium; All Gold, A3 Gold, Safar Flyer Gold (OW Sapphire)
Posts: 311
But of course all of this is not to say that overall loyalty programs are a great deal for customers - they are not. And indeed it takes more spending to get an award seat. Dynamic pricing has led to FB claiming that there are more award seats available than in the past . which is true - but also to awards typically being more expensive than in the past.
Mar 13, 2019, 8:03 am
#17
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,832
You are of course free to cut whatever part of an argument you like and change the context; but you shouldn't expect an answer to a question based on only part of the initial full argument.
Mar 13, 2019, 8:15 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: FB, Accor, Marriot
Posts: 426
Depending on what status you have with FB, to get 52,500 miles you have spent between 6,500 and >13,000 EUR to get those miles. Optimal case, 6,500 EUR spend on previous tickets + taxes of 195 EUR for a ticket that would have cost 1,030 all in, that is a discount of 8.5% on your ticket price.
Entirely up to you if for you that is a good deal or not.
(For comparison, I snatched a Premiere award CDG-LAX for 200,000 miles plus EUR 305 in taxes. Paid fare would have been EUR 12,846. To gain those 200,000 miles I had to spend EUR 25,000, so all in all I paid EUR 25,305 to get a ticket that if bought would have cost EUR 12,846. Very sweet deal. But I realise that this is an extreme example: I really only needed a one-way, so the EUR equivalent was relatively expensive, On a return basis the CDG-LAX priced out at EUR 8,028. And I think if dynamic pricing had worked correctly it would have been 350,000 miles like on most other flights that only sell the top fares.)
Entirely up to you if for you that is a good deal or not.
(For comparison, I snatched a Premiere award CDG-LAX for 200,000 miles plus EUR 305 in taxes. Paid fare would have been EUR 12,846. To gain those 200,000 miles I had to spend EUR 25,000, so all in all I paid EUR 25,305 to get a ticket that if bought would have cost EUR 12,846. Very sweet deal. But I realise that this is an extreme example: I really only needed a one-way, so the EUR equivalent was relatively expensive, On a return basis the CDG-LAX priced out at EUR 8,028. And I think if dynamic pricing had worked correctly it would have been 350,000 miles like on most other flights that only sell the top fares.)
Regarding the value of the miles: I get a discount of 835€ after spening 6500€. I consider that as a good deal. An unused mile is worth nothing, here it's worth 1.6cents per mile.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:20 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris/Milan
Programs: Flying Blue Platinium; All Gold, A3 Gold, Safar Flyer Gold (OW Sapphire)
Posts: 311
Because the rationale you quote is just one side of the argument. The other side is the first part of my same post, the one that you chose to cut.
You are of course free to cut whatever part of an argument you like and change the context; but you shouldn't expect an answer to a question based on only part of the initial full argument.
So i understand that the first part isn't enough for still using a loyalty program in your opinion, that's why i keep only the second part
And what i understand from your full message is that: Yes there is some good stuff, but in general i know that i lose more than i earn but i'm still using it. Thta's why i don't get your clear opinion about that subject
Mar 13, 2019, 12:47 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
I must say, however, that I have felt the impact of no longer being Gold on BA. Whereas, before that, I can more or less find award space on 95% of the flights I wanted within Europe thanks to the extra inventory for Gold members, it has become a little bit more challenging now that I am silver. No such issues with FB, as inventory availability at cheap rates has always been more scarce anyway so my expectations are lower to start with.
Mar 13, 2019, 12:48 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,673
I don't follow the premiere reasoning: I would never ever consider booking a La Premiere flight, so I would not even try to compare the price of the ticket with the amount of miles I would need for such a ticket.
Regarding the value of the miles: I get a discount of 835€ after spening 6500€. I consider that as a good deal. An unused mile is worth nothing, here it's worth 1.6cents per mile.
Regarding the value of the miles: I get a discount of 835€ after spening 6500€. I consider that as a good deal. An unused mile is worth nothing, here it's worth 1.6cents per mile.
A) Your miles are a byproduct of flying you would have done anyway. So they're "free". What they are worth is how much you save when using them.
B) Your miles were not free since you had to pay for those flights. If you didnt have a loyalty card you may have gone with a competitor and saved money. You might also have been compelled to take a flight to avoid them expiring (weve all been there). So they are worth something but you should also take in account the spend you had to make because you are going to have to make that spend again to gain them back.
Both of these reasonings make sense. He is B) and you are A) Not to give you a headache, but here are a couple more factors to think about:
1) Whilst YOUR flight would have cost you €1k There may have been cheaper and/or more convenient flights on the same dates. Another flight available for €500? Then you saved yourself 300 not 800.
2) You got an award flight so no miles for you. You therefore "lost" 5000 miles. (Or more accurately, the paid fare also includes a benefit of 5k miles which you can deduct from your net gains)
Mar 14, 2019, 2:59 am
#22
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: FB, Accor, Marriot
Posts: 426
There are two kinds of reasoning here. Neither of them is incorrect.
A) Your miles are a byproduct of flying you would have done anyway. So they're "free". What they are worth is how much you save when using them.
B) Your miles were not free since you had to pay for those flights. If you didnt have a loyalty card you may have gone with a competitor and saved money. You might also have been compelled to take a flight to avoid them expiring (weve all been there). So they are worth something but you should also take in account the spend you had to make because you are going to have to make that spend again to gain them back.
Both of these reasonings make sense. He is B) and you are A) Not to give you a headache, but here are a couple more factors to think about:
1) Whilst YOUR flight would have cost you €1k There may have been cheaper and/or more convenient flights on the same dates. Another flight available for €500? Then you saved yourself 300 not 800.
2) You got an award flight so no miles for you. You therefore "lost" 5000 miles. (Or more accurately, the paid fare also includes a benefit of 5k miles which you can deduct from your net gains)
A) Your miles are a byproduct of flying you would have done anyway. So they're "free". What they are worth is how much you save when using them.
B) Your miles were not free since you had to pay for those flights. If you didnt have a loyalty card you may have gone with a competitor and saved money. You might also have been compelled to take a flight to avoid them expiring (weve all been there). So they are worth something but you should also take in account the spend you had to make because you are going to have to make that spend again to gain them back.
Both of these reasonings make sense. He is B) and you are A) Not to give you a headache, but here are a couple more factors to think about:
1) Whilst YOUR flight would have cost you €1k There may have been cheaper and/or more convenient flights on the same dates. Another flight available for €500? Then you saved yourself 300 not 800.
2) You got an award flight so no miles for you. You therefore "lost" 5000 miles. (Or more accurately, the paid fare also includes a benefit of 5k miles which you can deduct from your net gains)
Fair enough for the above points.
However I'm located in a hub. If there are direct flights to where I want to go, sometimes it may happen that flying indirect on another company ma same me a bit of money, but I've never seen situations shere the difference in price would make me want to take indirect flights (and in case another company offers direct flights, they are always at similar prices). And in case there is anyway no direct flights, I've barely ever seen a big difference in price, unless I agree to fly companies I do not want to fly with.
May 19, 2019, 2:19 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2019
Programs: klm
Posts: 12
OK so today I tried to booktwo award tickets for august week end 15-17 august cost 36000 miles and 191 in taxes
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
May 19, 2019, 3:52 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
OK so today I tried to booktwo award tickets for august week end 15-17 august cost 36000 miles and 191 in taxes
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
(Unless you value the ability with the redemption ticket to be able to cancel for a fee of €42 per person - your cash fare is likely completely non-refundable)
May 20, 2019, 2:09 am
#26
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,741
May 20, 2019, 10:03 am
#27
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,410
OK so today I tried to booktwo award tickets for august week end 15-17 august cost 36000 miles and 191 in taxes
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
but the same flights as normal fares 205 euros. so what is in the 191 in taxes mean. do the flights really cost 12 euros.
or rather 10 XP per passenger costs 6 euros ?
May 20, 2019, 2:43 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
I just booked a one way from CDG to SFO for less than 20,000 miles, so that fee might be the required price for throwing away your miles...
May 21, 2019, 12:33 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,410
