emoose1

Per the AF website:
As long as 1 of the following conditions is fulfilled, your Miles remain valid for life:

- you travel at least once every 2 years on an eligible flight with Air France, KLM or one of the SkyTeam partner airlines;
- you're a Silver, Gold or Platinum member;
- you make a purchase with an eligible partner bank card at least once every 2 years.

These "global expansion activities" extend the validity of all your Miles by 2 years, starting from the date when said activities began.

You can also extend the validity of the Miles earned with all other partners (airline partners not mentioned above, car rental partners, hotel partners and travel experience partners) by 2 years. These "partial expansion activities" extend the validity of the Miles earned with these partners by 2 years, starting from the date when said activities began. They will not extend the validity of the Miles earned with "global expansion activities".

If all the miles in the account are from bank transfers (partial expansion activities), then it sounds like an additional transfer will extend the validity of all miles in the account.

fifty_two

thanks i forgot the card possibility , but this apply only to cobranded cards between flying blue and mastercard/american express


so in such case we need a real use case to see if reality match the terms and conditions , but for the sake of avoiding an endless debate , the best option is to fly regularly (once a year at least)

Then the person who made this request should check , however iam not willing to ask him to gamble

irishguy28

...or to only transfer miles into FB at a time when the customer actually wants to make an FB award booking, and then only the amount required for the flight that they actually want to take, and only if they are not mistakenly thinking that they can do something "clever" like cancel that flight again in the future and somehow "benefit" from doing so by extending mileage balances.

The credit card companies (and airlines) must rub their hands with glee when they see customers, with no real intention to actually travel, fall for their "bonus miles upon transfer" schemes; they offload their liability for these loyalty points onto a frequent flyer programme that the customer doesn't understand and where they will likely fail to derive any benefit from those miles.

There is absolutely no benefit to transferring miles into a programme where those miles will likely die. Taking advantage of a "bonus offer" is only an advantage if you actually need to use those miles - otherwise, you are just obtaining a larger number of miles that will ultimately die unused. There will always be bonus offers and transfer bonuses; the credit card companies and airlines like offloading their liabilities in this manner in a way that makes the the customer think they are getting a great deal, when this is likely only true if the passenger needs to immediately redeem those miles.

I would have hoped that by now we would have put to bed the idea that transferring miles from a credit card, or cancelling a speculative award booking, in any way benefits the account holder. In Flying Blue, transferring miles and cancelling award bookings will not extend the lifetime of any miles in that account. That people still seem to think this to be the case indicates that they don't understand the programme.

And that it always arises with an apparent fierce determination never to actually earn miles into the account by flying is further perplexing. It's a frequent flyer programme, and this is Flyer Talk after all. Why do these people simply not want to do the simple thing - dedicate one XP earning flight to this account every 24 months? Is that really so difficult?

fifty_two

One thing you need to remember and/or understand is that selling miles to partners is a new source of revenue and a cash machine for airlines , especially in the USA , and even more due to covid as most are selling away miles with discount , as they are bleeding cash


As said , its a big business , in the USA credit card issuers are in a big war to attract every kind of customers , by signing partnerships with all kind of corporations to "share" customers , so points/miles are one effective way , and airlines are happy to generate money by non flying activities .

You are surely aware that , as a customer , by doing the whole process for rewarding those miles (use your credit card + collecting miles +redeem miles for flights) cost you in the end more than buying revenue ticket , even if it is indirectly you end up paying more ... but many customers don't feel and understand it ....

Then everybody wins , airlines (they can sell a lot of them) banks (who can "offer" something extra to their customer and generate more money) , credit card issers (who charge higher fees than debit cards) and to a very small extent some smart US customers ... the rest are loosers

These type of offers are not well developed in european markets , therefore airlines can play by their own rules = "want awards tickets ?? You need more miles cause of devaluation ?? then fly more often by buying expensive fares"

The US customers find a loophole in the system and exploit it , you can't blame them , if i have a credit card A or B which costs the same , and if a card C offers me a way to get enough miles to book rewards flights by just cashing my daily expenses , why not taking advantage of the system ??? But on the other hand the cartels (credit card issuers + banks) are the real winners... Airlines themselves perverted their products for the sake of quick financial gains on the back of their loyal customers


well , you should make a poll and ask them , but to make everything simple , we always suggest to everybody to take at least one flight per year , and it is not so complicated

irishguy28

It's not new, and it is extremely lucrative; Qantas's Frequent Flyer was once the only profitable part of the business.

But my point is beyond that. The credit card companies are skilled at manipulating customers into the kind of behaviour that benefits the company with little or no benefit to themselves.

Transfer "bonuses" and the like encourage customers to make those transfers, which are irreversible, and which they frequently end up not using, or scrambling at the last minute to try and prevent the miles from finally expiring. These "deals" are only a deal if it's for something you actually want and can use; running or having an FB account solely to hold miles transferred from credit cards is, in any case, problematic. And if someone chooses to just transfer their credit card points across to FB even without the lure of a "bonus offer", and then end up 2 years later wondering how to keep them alive, it's even less of a good idea.

If you have a relationship already with FB it's less of an issue; but if you don't, and the queries are always from people who never fly on their FB account, it's not the great idea they seem to think it is.

There's no need for a poll; every few months some new poster arrives here, and from everything they write, it seems that they are willing to do anything (buy more miles, book and then cancel an award, rent a car, stay in a hotel, acquire a credit card) other than actually take one flight to extend the lifetime of their miles!

Granted, the OP in this thread was willing to take a DL domestic flight, but it's often phrased as if this is the last thing they want to do.

fifty_two

yes , no wonder that skymiles is the goldmine of DL , low costs but max benefits

True , and the more you know about this industry the more you are disgusted

i know the story , i am killing myself to explain my relatives or people around me that it is true iam doing the extra effort of adding segments in my journey to fly with ST , because of flying blue and flight-report , but they dont get it . However in case of a regular folk , traveling twice or four time per year , a FFP is not worth the price

unfortunately thats how it is , life is not always fair

Koru Flyer

I have around 200k of miles expiring in December 2020 with FB. Normally it would not be a problem to take a flight, but based in Australia we are legally not allowed to travel outside of AU (we cannot even do AirCalin!). I do not expect that to be lifted before end of 2020 at all. I can "hope" that FB will extend validity for an extra year.

Any thoughts on what plan of attack I should use? (I was rebooked from LH onto a KLM flight last year - they pushed back on the registration of miles saying that I could not earn miles for a rebooked flight. I shrugged back then, but should I try and push that?)

Thanks,

KF

Adelphos

A question on this - I currently have some miles in my Flying Blue account, and the account indicates my miles are valid until Spring 2022. All miles that are in my Flying Blue account are either transferred or bought directly - my only Flying Blue flights were award flights in Summer 2018. My understanding is that my miles would expire in Summer 2020, yet my account says my miles are valid until Spring 2022. Why would that be? Are the Flying Blue app/website accurate when it comes to miles expiry? I am willing to take a Delta flight if necessary to extend my miles

Koru Flyer

FB provides an exact date and year, and the extension is as follows6. How are my Miles affected by the COVID-19 measures?

As an immediate measure, we will prevent all Miles of our Explorer members from expiring between now and the end of 2020. Since the situation is still evolving, we will continue monitoring it closely. We are committed to sharing details when available.
I can see for example 31 December 2020 as my expiry date, probably you need to look at the dashboard?

My challenge is that there is no way that I can take a qualifying flight between now and that date. Based in Australia there is simply no option as all international travel is grounded.

KF

irishguy28

You should perhaps consider spending your miles, then.

By December of this year, you will be able to book travel for yourself, or for anyone else you name, up until November/December of 2021.

If all else fails, you could donate your miles to charity.

irishguy28

Based on what you have stated, the advertised expiry date is incorrect.

Prevention is always better than cure. Take that Delta flight. If you find that you do need to travel anyway, make sure at least one sector is on Delta.

However...

This is a very poor use of a Flying Blue account. Flying Blue, and whatever credit card or other partner you transfer points into this FB account, doubtless love this behaviour, as you show "loyalty" without ever deriving any benefit from the points/miles thus accrued.

I would advise you to seriously reconsider your mileage accrual strategy, because your strategy is perhaps not working in your own best interest. You should keep credit card points in your credit card account until you actually need to swap them for something. If those points were still in your credit card account, you would still retain far more flexibility and options in how to use them - rather than having expiring FB miles that you fear you may now lose. You should not buy Flying Blue miles until you are actually redeeming a ticket and find you have an unexpected shortfall. You should not be maintaining balances of miles in an account for extended periods, particularly one which clearly isn't your "main" FFP.

It might make far more sense for you to now spend those remaining miles, rather than prolonging them.

irishguy28

It does not matter who booked the ticket, or why the ticket was booked; as long as it is in an earning class, it should earn miles.

The fact that you were rebooked (by whom?) from an LH flight of itself doesn't mean that you cannot claim miles on both flights. (LH would have given you the original routing credit for the original LH flights; with a bit of a fight, most other *A programmes should have done so too; Flying Blue should have automatically credited you with miles/XPs once you did an online retrocredit, if the replacement flight was booked into mileage-earning fare class)

However, without knowing what fare bucket you were booked into, and whether or not you were booked onto some kind of trade/discount/non-earning fare, there is no way of knowing whether you were incorrectly informed at the start. That a human had to get involved, though, does seem to indicate that your ticket was in some way unusual - otherwise, a simple retrocredit would have gone through automatically without need for recourse to human intervention.

Point 1.4.6 of the T&Cs puts a 6-month limit on retroclaims; however, if an FB agent got involved and told you your ticket was non-earning, then they probably were correct.

Adelphos

Appreciate the advice - the FB miles in the account now were mainly transferred during transfer bonuses and aren’t that much (maybe 50K) - I’m confident I will use them by the stated expiry date, but I want to make sure that date is right

Koru Flyer

Hi

To the above, it was booked into /J/ but I fear there was some other aspect to it, as my number was in it and printed on the BP, and a human had to get involved who then quoted 2.4 at me. At the time I was not phased. And I credited the *A retro to UA, and the KL flights to QF in the end so all good. Except I would have killed for the flight credit, even at 0 points to get me out of the expiry issue.

Yes, I could just book a flight somewhere for 2021. Except that I do not see Australia's borders opening in 2021 (our internal state borders are all closed until at least beginning of 2021), so it could be a challenge.

Some questions?
Is there any other way except to take a flight, such as buying miles to keep them going.
Also if I book an award flight then have to cancel will the miles credit back or will they have the previous expiry.
Do all miles have to be spent or is the aspect of booking an award itself provide extra time? Such as I could book a cheap within europe or USA flight?

Sorry, I do not use the KL program much, just collected flights and built up a bank of points that I now struggle to use....

Thanks,

KF

irishguy28

This question has been answered over and over, including in this very thread!

Booking an award flight doesn't change the expiry date of any of the miles, either those "consumed" for the purchase, or those remaining in your account after the purchase.
Cancelling an award flight doesn't change the expiry date of any of the miles, either those "returned" to your account after the cancellation, or those that remained in your account all the time.

You can book an award flight just before the expiry of your mileage balance for a date up to about 11 months in the future, i.e. for a date long after that mileage expiry date. However, if you cancel the award booking after that mileage expiry date but before the date of departure of the award ticket, the miles will not be returned to your account, as the miles have, by that time, long expired.

Booking a ticket in the future is not a means of extending the expiry date of the miles. You can swap those miles for a ticket, which will remain valid and can be flown on the agreed date; however, this ticket cannot be converted back into miles after the expiry date of the miles used to book it, given that the expiry date of those miles has long since passed.

Note that, if a Flying Blue account is used by a "frequent flyer", then these issues do not arise; a Flying Blue account is designed to be primarily of benefit to those who add a mileage-earning flight at least once every 24 months.

"Do all miles have to be spent" - not sure what you mean by that. There is no requirement that, when making a transaction, you must have a zero balance afterwards. The only requirement when making a booking is that you have a balance of available miles that is at least equal to the "price" of the redemption. If your mileage balance exceeds the "price" of the redemption, your account proceeds with a new miles total, being the balance of the previous total less the "price" of the redemption.

Booking an award does not extend the lifetime of any of the miles, either those "consumed" for the purchase, or those remaining in your account after the purchase.

If you book a "cheap within europe or US flight", it will not extend the expiry of the remaining miles left in your account.
If you later cancel that ticket so that the miles are returned to your account, you will be subject to a €50 per ticket cancellation fee, and the miles will still expire with the same date as they had before you made the booking. (Note: awards booked as Promo@wards cannot be changed or cancelled)

It is not a good idea to maintain balances in any account, least of all FB. If, as you fear, you can neither fly nor make an award booking prior to the expiry of the miles at the end of the year, then at least consider donating the balance to charity, rather than just letting the miles expire!