San Gottardo

Didn't give up. Finally had the time to call AF again, this time with the background information of having read the T&Cs of Flying Blue.

Summary: (i) no mileage credit (ii) pretended reason: "it's the rule" (iii) true reason: they can't operationally follow the real rules

In detail:

• There are two calculation methods in FB to determine the number of miles a member gains:
  • Flights taken on KL, AF, etc airlines that have FB as their "home" program, the number of miles is calculated by taking the fare and then multiplying by the usual factors for Blue, SIlver, Gold, etc - and that is the *only* base of calculation
  • Miles earned on the basis of distance and class is only for flights taken on other Skyteam and partner airlines (where it was unclear whether "taken" means operated by, flight number... - it wasn't relevant to my case) - but never for flights on "home airlines" AF, KL, etc
• In my case, since my ticket was a convoluted construct between OS, LX, KL, DL they say they cannot figure out the "monetary equivalent" because it was all under some fare that was not a KL fare. And since mileage earning for KL flights only works on the basis of fare, they cannot calculate how many miles I get
• Getting the miles instead on the basis of distance and class does not work either, because that calculation method is only applied for flights other than AF, KL, etc
• AF says "this is the rule" - which is a grey zone, as the T&Cs do not specifically make the requirement that they have to find in their systems the AFKL fare, or that miles on AFKL flights can only be attributed using the fare-as-a-basis method; but there is a sentence in the T&C that says that "certain" tickets are excluded, so I presume that in legal terms they will base their refusal on that sentence
• Hence, what they really mean by "rule": we never do it because we cannot do it in cases where we cannot figure out the fare paid to KL/AF, and there is another "rule" that awarding miles on the basis of distance and class is not done for flights on KL.Those are the "rules" that are applied, not necessarily the ones in the T&C

I could insist and write to them, refer to their T&C, etc.
They could be sensible, recognise that there is a hole in their rules that leaves people like me without miles despite having spent money and time on KL flights, and do the right thing for a long-time very loyal customer (PFL since 8 years, re-qualified ever since, C2000...) and just credit me miles based on distance and class.

It would take another moment of boredom to write to them and make that case. Not sure it will happen.

AurelAF96

So if i understand you correctly:
If i buy an AF flight marketed by AZ, i will have no miles because they can't know the price?
Why they don't take the distance flown as it's an AZ marketed flight?

ranskis

I understand it differently: if it is an AZ flight operated by AF or other skyteam airlines (the case you propose), the miles will accrue depending on distance and booking class as it is an AZ flight and not an AF flight. It does not matter if AF, AZ, OS or EK issues the ticket.
The problem of San Gottardo is for AF/KL marketed flights operated by Skyteam but issued on non Skyteam ticket number (although I am 90% sure that if the ticket number is Air Europa or Aeroflot it would not credit either).
The irony of this story is that this KL flight issued on OS stock can certainly credit on Aeroflot Bonus or Air Europa Suma or Delta Skymiles... which is one more example that you can certainly earn more miles for AF KL flights if you credit them on other programs than FB and that AFKL needs to compensate for the accrual.

Oxymore

That is flawed logic on their part, but would make sense except that the other day, my AF flights didn't post automatically to my Flying Blue account, so I filled the online form for retro-credit and... ta-da, they posted "based on booking class and distance flown". AF flight numbers, 057- ticket.
So they can certainly post based on distance and booking class.

Let's also add that all US airlines that have moved to revenue-based mileage credit (including DL) have a backup system based on distance and booking class in case the fare information is not available. Same for LH Miles&More on non-LH tickets. Flying Blue alone is pulling that kind of shenanigans.

siw

If only Flying Blue had not made that stupid change-over on 1st April 2018...!

What person(s) in Flying Blue sat down and devised this 'Reinvented' nonsense and convinced themselves (and their higher-ups) that they understood what they where planning/doing. And thought that they could market it as being 'better' for the customers without the customers picking up on all the devaluations, down-grades and convoluted problem scenarios.

Goldorak

This is absolute non-sense, although I understand the problem the FB agents are facing but FB created this non-sense so it's up to them to find a solution. If one cannot earn any miles on eligible flights just because this is a complex itinerary involving different airlines...well we are talking at thousands of similar tickets per month. Again, don't give up

Macaron54

It is a question that many of us ask themselves regularly. It would be, indeed, interesting to know whether the higher management of the AFKL group is aware of some of the subtleties of the reinvented program. For instance, what airline would incentivize its patrons to book flights with its Skyteam partners, but competitors nonetheless? Aside from not qualifying for Ultimate status (the added value of which has been questioned repeatedly here by some of us), booking on DL stock will get you the same amount of XPs, but will be substantially more generous on miles accrual by virtue of the distance/class-based scheme still followed by FB for partner airlines.

San Gottardo

To be fair, I do not think that any of the higher ups are aware of these little quirks of the program. How often does a case like mine happen? Ticket too complex to figure out the fare as calculation for mileage earnings on the one hand, no possibility to award miles because the flight is on KL - I don't think very often. I don't expect the higher ups to be aware of every little quirk and remotely possible situation, neither when they designed the program nor now that the program is alive.

What the higher ups should do instead is to constantly instruct and even incentivise their staff to use common commercial sense. When you have a loyal and big spending customer who "falls through the cracks" of the program's rules not because his claim is against the idea of the program but because there is an operational quirk, just make an exception and give him the miles. It creates a "moment of gratitude" with the customer, much bigger even than when miles just arrive on the account.

It's that absence of common commercial sense - in this case as well as in others - which is aggravating with FB, and especially the AF side of AFKL (or is KL just as bad? What is their excuse? They aren't a former state company?).

NickB

I agree. I suspect that this is precisely because they anticipated that there might be situations where calculating the underlying fare might be difficult/impossible that DL excluded non-DL issued tickets from fare-based earnings. FB made another choice. They need to find a solution.

Indeed and precisely why common sense would dictate in such a situation to err on the side of generosity with the passenger as the cost will be negligible for FB. This should be true for any passenger although I would of course agree with you that it is even more true towards a high spending customer. This stuff is really shooting-yourself-in-the-foot-through-nonsensical-rigidity material.

Sjondorn

Mixing airlines across alliances has always been a problem (like when IRROPS happen or checking in bag etc.), I wish you good luck with sorting the situation here. Anyway, you mentioned there was a DL flight in there. Did you get XP and miles for that one?