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Definiton of “Europe” for promo awards?

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Old Jan 12, 2019, 12:34 am
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Definiton of “Europe” for promo awards?
  • Promo reward tickets for long haul-flights depart from or arrive in Europe, as defined by IATA as the following countries: Albania, Algeria, Armenia, Austria, Balearic Islands, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canary Islands, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Libya, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, West Russia.

Can someone help with the link to this IATA defintion which apparently does not include Lebanon but it’s southern neigbour? Many thanks
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 7:37 am
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See IATA's website - the process how it can be found for the future reference is here.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 8:10 am
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Originally Posted by ok986
See IATA's website - the process how it can be found for the future reference is here.
Thank you for the link to the iata website which I did look at before posting. Grateful if you could point out where the content of the link provides a definition of which countries are part of “Europe”? Many thanks in advance.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by Hafnia
Thank you for the link to the iata website which I did look at before posting. Grateful if you could point out where the content of the link provides a definition of which countries are part of “Europe”? Many thanks in advance.
Now you see Israel is listed there. You asked where this is stated, and i gave you an example.

For a full listing, see IATA Phraseology overview. Many IATA reports contain such table.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 9:36 am
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The "logic" behind this is the Israeli-Arab conflict. Not much different from, for example, the situation in the basket ball Euroleague that includes israeli teams (and many other sports as well).
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by Hafnia
Grateful if you could point out where the content of the link provides a definition of which countries are part of “Europe”? Many thanks in advance.
Geography obviously only played a subordinate role whan that list was drawn up.

Accepting the Urals-Caspian-Caucasus as the boundary between Europe and Asia, then Armenia is definitely not in Europe. Since it is on the list anyway, that begs the question why Georgia is not?

Turkey can least claim a toehold, but including a bunch of North African countries (but not Egypt?) is plainly ridiculous. Last time they were anywhere near European was when Rome sacked Carthage and imposed its rule.

And what happened to Lichtenstein, Andorra, Monaco and San Marino?

Johan
Last edited by johan rebel; Jan 13, 2019 at 5:00 am Reason: silly typos
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by ok986
Now you see Israel is listed there. You asked where this is stated, and i gave you an example.
As far as I can see, the link you provided only mentions where IATA has offices ( “IATA’s regional office for Europe is based in Madrid, Spain and has a network of over 15 offices in both European Union and non-EU countries comprising, among others, Russia, Turkey, Israel, Ukraine and the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS).”) which is not the same as defining which countries are part of “Europe”. Anyway, let’s leave it there. Thank you for your time.
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Old Jan 13, 2019, 10:19 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel
And what happened to Lichtenstein, Andorra, Monaco and San Marino?

Johan
I would have thought that was obvious!

They - along with the Vatican City - are the only countries not to have got around to building an airport yet.
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Old Jan 13, 2019, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by johan rebel
Turkey can least claim a toehold, but including a bunch of North African countries (but not Egypt?) is plainly ridiculous. Last time they were anywhere near European was when Rome sacked Carthage and imposed its rule.
Actually, I would say that a good chunk of North Africa was "European" until July 4th 1962.

And what happened to Lichtenstein, Andorra, Monaco and San Marino?
I think that if you give yourself two minutes to think about it and think about what the first "A" in IATA stands for, you might have your answer...
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 1:40 am
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Originally Posted by Hafnia

Can someone help with the link to this IATA defintion which apparently does not include Lebanon but it’s southern neigbour? Many thanks
AF is free to do whatever they want about this topic ..... until a country force them to do so !!

Originally Posted by Hafnia
West Russia
This one is a good example
Last edited by fifty_two; Jan 14, 2019 at 2:02 am
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 4:12 am
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I would be interested to know what airports West Russia contains, i.e. how far East you can go. For booking ordinary rewards, this would be interesting. However, it is a major negative that Aeroflot award flights are now loaded with extra taxes and charges (presumably YQ).
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 4:56 am
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Originally Posted by Concerto
I would be interested to know what airports West Russia contains, i.e. how far East you can go. For booking ordinary rewards, this would be interesting. However, it is a major negative that Aeroflot award flights are now loaded with extra taxes and charges (presumably YQ).
my bet is only for st petersburg and moscow airports
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 6:17 am
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Previously I was able to book Samara (KUF) for normal European rates. A round trip was 25,000 miles, with a smattering of taxes. Now, ticket prices have come down sharply and award ticket bogus surcharges have gone up sharply.
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 7:51 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
They - along with the Vatican City - are the only countries not to have got around to building an airport yet.
If possessing an airport is a requirement for a country to be a part of Europe, then the continent would not even have existed in 1900.

Although bit harder to define than some other continents, it should be pretty evident to most what Europe means in a geographic sense. IATA obviously lacks geographic sense, and stretching an accepted definition to suit its own unclear purposes doesn't help.

Besides, both Liechtenstein (ICAO:LSXB) and Monaco (IATA: MCM, ICAO:LNMC) have officially recognized heliports ( Collins English Dictionary: an airport for helicopters)

Originally Posted by NickB
I think that if you give yourself two minutes to think about it and think about what the first "A" in IATA stands for, you might have your answer...
II appreciate your generosity, but decided to give myself ten, just in case I'm not the brightest spark on this forum.

I think "A" stands for "Air". I strongly suspect that all four countries have plenty of air, and that some of their inhabitants not only breathe that air, but on occasion travel by air as well. Doesn't really have much to do with whether they are in Europe or not.

Johan
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 8:16 am
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Originally Posted by Concerto
I would be interested to know what airports West Russia contains, i.e. how far East you can go.
In a geographic sense that's very straightforward: as far east as the Urals. So Perm would qualify, whereas Yekaterinburg would not.

Johan
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