Trying to Understand Upgrade Availability for AF

Old Dec 3, 2018, 3:51 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by brunos
Dear KVS: could you elaborate. I thought that EF updated awards like once a day. But the discrepancy on O awards has been going on for many many days. EF shows O0 C9. Is CS on KVS really identical to O? or doe sit include award for elites (C)
If CS=O, why the difference? POS?
There is no "discrepancy" -- this is by-design:

There are 2 separate types of O/CS Availability: One for FB own members (which only the KVS Tool supports) and one for Partners (which KVS Tool also supports, separately).

Originally Posted by bodory
What do yo mean by dynamic Award/Upgrade availability for FB members? Are you referring to real time (or close) information about awards and upgrades inventory? Or to the dynamic pricing FB uses for awards on AK and KL?
The latter: Only the KVS Tool supports Dynamically-Priced FB Awards (CR/CV/YR/YV), as well as the Extended FB Availability for its own members (as described above).

Originally Posted by bodory
Unless I am mistaken, there is no dynamic pricing for upgrades with FB ; only for awards. Upgrades remain ruled by the old availability scheme of F, O and A. And these upgrade class codes are also reflecting awards availability for partners.
Originally Posted by bodory
Therefore I cannot understand why KVS is showing upgrade availability for OP to upgrade from premium economy to the business cabin whereas ExpertFlyer and FB agents say the opposite.
Please see above and also consult the AF/KL/KQ/A5 sections of the KVS Tool User Guide for a detailed listing of these Booking Classes.
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Old Dec 3, 2018, 5:25 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by KVS
The latter: Only the KVS Tool supports Dynamically-Priced FB Awards (CR/CV/YR/YV), as well as the Extended FB Availability for its own members (as described above).
Thanks

Originally Posted by KVS
Please see above and also consult the AF/KL/KQ/A5 sections of the KVS Tool User Guide for a detailed listing of these Booking Classes.
The user guide does not explain why KVS is showing upgrade availability whereas the airline's own system is not.
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Old Dec 3, 2018, 11:38 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bodory
Thanks
Originally Posted by bodory
The user guide does not explain why KVS is showing upgrade availability whereas the airline's own system is not.
Originally Posted by bodory
But I thought married segments restrictions only applied to revenue fares, not awards nor upgrades. If effectively in place that would be a serious change to the program.
AF does apply Segment Marriage Logic to Awards/Upgrades (which is why the OP could not upgrade JFK-CDG-CPT, when there was Extended Award/Upgrade Availability for standalone JFK-CDG).
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Old Dec 4, 2018, 12:18 am
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Thanks!
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Old Dec 4, 2018, 7:26 am
  #35  
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Old Dec 4, 2018, 7:36 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by KVS
AF does apply Segment Marriage Logic to Awards/Upgrades (which is why the OP could not upgrade JFK-CDG-CPT, when there was Extended Award/Upgrade Availability for standalone JFK-CDG).
Thanks KVS. Just so I'm clear if there is Extended Award/Upgrade Availability for standalone JFK-CDG but not CDG-CPT is it all possible to get FB to upgrade me for that segment (JFK-CDG) only prior to the DoD at the airport? I'm wondering if FB has any flexibility in upgrading me on that JFK-CDG segment with cash, cash/miles or just miles prior to DoD?
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Old Dec 4, 2018, 5:39 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
I called FB again today and spoke to a fairly knowledgeable rep and he said my flight was a "married" fare from JFK-CPT and that might be the reason the original rep I spoke to at FB said there was no "O" availability for just the JFK-CDG portion.
Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
Thanks KVS. Just so I'm clear if there is Extended Award/Upgrade Availability for standalone JFK-CDG but not CDG-CPT is it all possible to get FB to upgrade me for that segment (JFK-CDG) only prior to the DoD at the airport?
Only if you can find agent who is willing and able to override the Segment Marriage Logic and use the Award/Upgrade Availability for JFK-CDG

Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
I'm wondering if FB has any flexibility in upgrading me on that JFK-CDG segment with cash, cash/miles or just miles prior to DoD?
You can always re-book your ticket in regular Business Class and pay the fare difference (+penalties) in cash.
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 10:17 am
  #38  
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So interesting development. . . Today I received an alert that Expert Flyer showed "O" availability on one of my return segments: AF 995 from JNB-CDG. As you can see it indicated that there were at least 5 "O" seats available.


Since I have a subscription to both ExpertFlyer and the KVS Tool, I immediately pulled up the same flight on KVS.



As you can see KVS did "NOT" show CS availability but only CV availability. As was indicated earlier in this thread supposedly CS availability is equal to O availability. So to check this I called Flying Blue and happened to speak with a very knowledgeable representative who checked this flight. She first pulled up my reservation and indicated that O was not available for this flight. I asked if she was only checking this segment or whether she was checking my entire married segment of JNB-JFK (JNB-CDG then CDG-JFK). She confirmed she was only checking the JNB--CDG segment. She then said let me try starting an entirely new reservation from just JNB-CDG and again she confirmed no O availability on the new reservation.

2 hours after I received the original alert from ExpertFlyer I'm still showing O availability on ExpertFlyer and only CV availability on KVS Tool.

So I'm somewhat confused and wondering which tool is correct? Obviously, it sounds like the KVS tool was consistent with actual availability according to what Flying Blue showed when I called. However why is ExpertFlyer showing at least 5 seats available with O availability?
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 12:21 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
So interesting development. . . Today I received an alert that Expert Flyer showed "O" availability on one of my return segments: AF 995 from JNB-CDG. As you can see it indicated that there were at least 5 "O" seats available.


However why is ExpertFlyer showing at least 5 seats available with O availability?
The inventory is available. An award search on Delta.com for example shows 5 O class Business Award tickets available for that flight. If you are not using a USA point of sale with AF that could be a potential cause.
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 12:35 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by KVS
AF does apply Segment Marriage Logic to Awards/Upgrades (which is why the OP could not upgrade JFK-CDG-CPT, when there was Extended Award/Upgrade Availability for standalone JFK-CDG).
Originally Posted by ExpertFlyer Voice
The inventory is available. An award search on Delta.com for example shows 5 O class Business Award tickets available for that flight. If you are not using a USA point of sale with AF that could be a potential cause.
My tickets were purchased on AirFrance.com so assuming it was a USA point of sale. Why would the representative tell me they were not available though?
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 1:06 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
I immediately pulled up the same flight on KVS.



As you can see KVS did "NOT" show CS availability but only CV availability. As was indicated earlier in this thread supposedly CS availability is equal to O availability. So to check this I called Flying Blue and happened to speak with a very knowledgeable representative who checked this flight. She first pulled up my reservation and indicated that O was not available for this flight. I asked if she was only checking this segment or whether she was checking my entire married segment of JNB-JFK (JNB-CDG then CDG-JFK). She confirmed she was only checking the JNB--CDG segment. She then said let me try starting an entirely new reservation from just JNB-CDG and again she confirmed no O availability on the new reservation.

2 hours after I received the original alert from ExpertFlyer I'm still showing O availability on ExpertFlyer and only CV availability on KVS Tool.

So I'm somewhat confused and wondering which tool is correct? Obviously, it sounds like the KVS tool was consistent with actual availability according to what Flying Blue showed when I called. However why is ExpertFlyer showing at least 5 seats available with O availability?
As noted previously, only the KVS Tool supports both FB as well as Partner Award Availability and they can be different:

[KVS Tool 9.1.5/Diamond - Awards/AF-SkyTeam/US-AF]
Code:
JNB  Johannesburg Metro / OR Tambo Intl ZA = JNB HLA [FAJS]
PAR  Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA LBG XPG XJY
WED  02 Jan 2019 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Award Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------
AF         995     JNB   19:50     CDG   05:45 +1  388      CV+  WV+  YV+
[KVS Tool 9.1.5/Diamond - Awards/DL-SkyTeam/US]
Code:
JNB  Johannesburg Metro / OR Tambo Intl ZA = JNB HLA [FAJS]
PAR  Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA LBG XPG XJY
WED  02 Jan 2019 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Award Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------
AF         995     JNB   19:50     CDG   05:45 +1  388  0   CS5
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 1:14 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by KVS
As noted previously, only the KVS Tool supports both FB as well as Partner Award Availability and they can be different:

[KVS Tool 9.1.5/Diamond - Awards/AF-SkyTeam/US-AF]
Code:
JNB Johannesburg Metro / OR Tambo Intl ZA = JNB HLA [FAJS]
PAR Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA LBG XPG XJY
WED 02 Jan 2019 1 Seat

Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Award Availability
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------------
AF 995 JNB 19:50 CDG 05:45 +1 388 CV+ WV+ YV+

[KVS Tool 9.1.5/Diamond - Awards/DL-SkyTeam/US]
Code:
JNB Johannesburg Metro / OR Tambo Intl ZA = JNB HLA [FAJS]
PAR Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA LBG XPG XJY
WED 02 Jan 2019 1 Seat

Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Award Availability
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------------
AF 995 JNB 19:50 CDG 05:45 +1 388 0 CS5
Thanks KVS. Learned a new feature of your tool. . . very cool. So the fact that DL shows O availability but AF does not am I able to use my Delta miles to upgrade on my flight purchased directly from AF? Are there any other options for upgrading now that I'm seeing availability from DL?
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 1:31 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by flywithmiles70
Thanks KVS. Learned a new feature of your tool. . . very cool. So the fact that DL shows O availability but AF does not am I able to use my Delta miles to upgrade on my flight purchased directly from AF? Are there any other options for upgrading now that I'm seeing availability from DL?
You may be able to apply a SkyTeam Upgrade (if your current ticket is in Y/B/M class).
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Old Dec 11, 2018, 1:39 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by KVS
You may be able to apply a SkyTeam Upgrade (if your current ticket is in Y/B/M class).
My current ticket is W on AF but I don't have any SkyTeam Upgrades.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:16 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by KVS
You may be able to apply a SkyTeam Upgrade (if your current ticket is in Y/B/M class).
@KVS Thanks for the tip about applying a SkyTeam Upgrade on this (JNB-CDG) segment. I called Delta Skymiles and asked if I could use Delta miles for an upgrade I booked on AF on the AF website. Delta told me I could do this with a SkyTeam upgrade and they charged me 35K miles for the SkyTeam upgrade. Much less than I thought it would be. Again, thank you for the guidance.
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