China Southern leaving ST

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Old Dec 3, 18, 12:37 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
But MU objections could easily be set aside, I would have thought, unless MU was in a position to offer an equivalent partnership to that with CZ, If they are, we could end up with a replacement of an AF-CZ JV with a AF-MU JV. If they are not, the AF-CZ partnership could conceivably continue.
You might be right and all this is speculation with a bit of salt. China is full of rumors and some are fake news.
But CZ and MU are clearly competitors.
Not sure what CZ offers that MU cannot offer.
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Old Dec 3, 18, 5:16 am
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Originally Posted by HalconBCN View Post
Well yes, I believe it because I wrote and called the PSL three times about it and they said they would come back to me with a definitive answer, which they finally did on the third call. I don't see why the PSL would invent a date out of thin air and assure me this was the confirmed answer, but I could be wrong...
I think you misunderstand. It's not that that date was pulled out of someone's you know what. It's simply that as of today, that is the plan and the date (31 Dec 2019), but nothing stops CZ anytime in the future from changing that date, as requirements change.
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Old Dec 3, 18, 1:26 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wxman22 View Post
I think you misunderstand. It's not that that date was pulled out of someone's you know what. It's simply that as of today, that is the plan and the date (31 Dec 2019), but nothing stops CZ anytime in the future from changing that date, as requirements change.
I have to disagree with you. In the airline world, everything is extremely complex with tickets booked well in advance and so they cannot do what they wish and change a date of exiting ST as they wish. There are contractual agreements (which we have no clue about). and CZ has to comply with those.
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Old Dec 3, 18, 4:30 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
I have to disagree with you. In the airline world, everything is extremely complex with tickets booked well in advance and so they cannot do what they wish and change a date of exiting ST as they wish. There are contractual agreements (which we have no clue about). and CZ has to comply with those.
Well, we already know fthat the transition period will last until 31 December 2019 and that CZ expects to have all ST ties cut by then.

We also know from information published by CZ to Taiwanese travel agents that people who have purchased a CZ ticket and traveling until 31 December 2019 will enjoy Skyteam services. It seems reasonable to infer from this that passengers will probably keep accruing miles and benefit form ST perks on CZ until that date, even though we have not yet had clear explicit confirmation from either CZ or Skyteam.

If I was a betting man, I would bet on 31 December 2019 being the crucial date as far as passengers are concerned. As I am not a gambler, I will content myself with waiting for official announcements.
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Old Dec 5, 18, 12:00 am
  #35  
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The 31/12/2019 is consistent with what is said on Skyteam site :
https://www.skyteam.com/fr/about/pre...hina-Southern/

SkyTeam and China Southern have agreed to work closely together to ensure a seamless transition for all customers and partners. That process will run throughout 2019 and will complete by the year-end.
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Old Jan 12, 19, 10:36 am
  #36  
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I am trying to understand if miles and XP are now earned on CZ.

https://www.flyingblue.fr/en/partner...s/presentation

One reading is that you only earn XP on flights marketed by CZ and operated by a ST member.
Is that correct?
spending seems to be possible on most CZ flights.
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Old Jan 12, 19, 12:11 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
I am trying to understand if miles and XP are now earned on CZ.

https://www.flyingblue.fr/en/partner...s/presentation

One reading is that you only earn XP on flights marketed by CZ and operated by a ST member.
Is that correct?
spending seems to be possible on most CZ flights.
Yes. That is just the standard rule for ST partners: when the flight is markedted by a ST airline, you only earn miles and XPs if the flight is operated by a ST airline. It is only with AF and KL themselves that you also earn miles for AF/KL-marketed flights operated by a non-ST airline.

For now, nothing has changed with CZ. Allthough it has not been officially published yet, my crystal ball tells me that you are probably OK until the end of 2019. I would not, however, book flights on CZ in 2020 with the expectation of being able to credit them to FB or indeed the FFP of another ST airline.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 2:27 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Yes. That is just the standard rule for ST partners: when the flight is markedted by a ST airline, you only earn miles and XPs if the flight is operated by a ST airline. It is only with AF and KL themselves that you also earn miles for AF/KL-marketed flights operated by a non-ST airline.

For now, nothing has changed with CZ. Allthough it has not been officially published yet, my crystal ball tells me that you are probably OK until the end of 2019. I would not, however, book flights on CZ in 2020 with the expectation of being able to credit them to FB or indeed the FFP of another ST airline.
Apologies, not sure I understand your post.
You confirm that FB website now treats CZ like any non-ST partner. SO no credit on CZ unless the flight is operated by AFKL or other ST airlines, a slight benefit.
But then you say that "nothing has changed with CZ".

I expected that the transition period meant that we would still earn miles/XP on most CZ flights as was the case when it was still in ST. But that does not seem true anymore.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 3:49 am
  #39  
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AFAIK, nothing has changed with the way CZ-marketed/operated flights are considered for other ST FFP members, for the moment and likely for all 2019. So, to make it simple, it is as if they were still in ST.

Last edited by Goldorak; Jan 13, 19 at 5:17 am
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Old Jan 13, 19, 4:49 am
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Apologies, not sure I understand your post.
You confirm that FB website now treats CZ like any non-ST partner. SO no credit on CZ unless the flight is operated by AFKL or other ST airlines, a slight benefit.
No, I am saying the reverse: CZ is still a ST airline and FB treats CZ exactly like any other ST airline, viz. you will get miles on a CZ-marketed flight as long as it is operated by a ST airline but not if it is operated by a non-ST airline.
So, if your CZ-marketed flight is operated by CZ, MU, DL, AF, KE, etc... then you earn FB miles and XPs.
If your CZ-marketed flight is operated by AA, OZ, QF, SQ, etc... then you will not earn FB miles or XPs.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 4:55 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
AFAIK, nothing has changed with the way CZ-marketed/operated flights towards other ST FFP members, for the moment and likely for all 2019. So, to make it simple, it is as if they were still in ST.
AIUI, during the notice period, the airline is regarded as still being in ST for most purposes.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 5:23 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
No, I am saying the reverse: CZ is still a ST airline and FB treats CZ exactly like any other ST airline, viz. you will get miles on a CZ-marketed flight as long as it is operated by a ST airline but not if it is operated by a non-ST airline.
So, if your CZ-marketed flight is operated by CZ, MU, DL, AF, KE, etc... then you earn FB miles and XPs.
If your CZ-marketed flight is operated by AA, OZ, QF, SQ, etc... then you will not earn FB miles or XPs.
Sorry, but CZ is not ST member anymore since 1 January and the ST logo has disappeared from its website.
You and Goldorak are experts and I assume that you have reliable source. But the FB page is quite unclear. First it states that one gains XP on eligible miles.
Then the next paragraph seems to introduce a detailed description and flights where ou can gain miles/XP and spend miles. The spend miles is very general, but the earn miles is very restrictive.
it is probably that FB page is poorly drafted. But I would appreciate if you had an available source that says that FB miles and XP are still earned on CZ flights.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 6:40 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Sorry, but CZ is not ST member anymore since 1 January and the ST logo has disappeared from its website.
They did not renew the contract in 2019 but, AIUI, they are in the notice period for leaving ST and, for most practical purposes as far as passengers are concerned, the airline is still regarded as being with ST.
You and Goldorak are experts and I assume that you have reliable source. But the FB page is quite unclear. First it states that one gains XP on eligible miles.
Then the next paragraph seems to introduce a detailed description and flights where ou can gain miles/XP and spend miles. The spend miles is very general, but the earn miles is very restrictive.
it is probably that FB page is poorly drafted. But I would appreciate if you had an available source that says that FB miles and XP are still earned on CZ flights.
AFAIK, the CZ page says exactly the same thing as it said in December 2018. It has always been the case that a number of CZ flights were excluded from earning. Although the FB page suggests otherwise, the flight numbers listed as excluded on FB are in fact codeshare flights operated by non-ST airlines (except, strangely, for some flights operated by Xiamenair; this might be an oversight but I would not tempt fate by flying on any of these).
While I would personally have no qualms from an FB point of view about taking a CZ flight operated by CZ themselves or a ST airline unless it happened to bear one of the numbers listed on the FB page, I do not have a "reliable source" that I can point you towards. AFAIK, there has not been any clear statement published anywhere. So, if you need this for your own reassurance, I would suggest that you steer clear of CZ flights altogether.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 6:43 am
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It would be interesting if anyone has any practical experiences with CZ to post them here. I would consider them for my possible Summer trip to Asia, but ideally would like to get my XPs and so on.
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Old Jan 13, 19, 7:02 am
  #45  
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Same as NickB, I cannot post any link to a “reliable source”. What NickB said is correct : they have not renewed their ST membership but there is a notice period that will last several months. @brunos : if you feel “uncomfortable”with this situation, I suggest you contact AF or FB for reassurance for your specific flights and dates.
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