AF/KL/DL to also introduce new fare structure for Trans-Atlantic flights
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
If only it worked that way.
However - surprisingly as it may seem (), it is implemented in such a way that the airline benefits, rather than the customer. You don't get a cheaper ticket because of this change. The people who check a bag [and that means most people on transatlantic flights! If you don't travel with a checked bag, you're most likely travelling with an SSSS on your boarding pass!] have to pay for what used to be free; you get no discount.
However - surprisingly as it may seem (), it is implemented in such a way that the airline benefits, rather than the customer. You don't get a cheaper ticket because of this change. The people who check a bag [and that means most people on transatlantic flights! If you don't travel with a checked bag, you're most likely travelling with an SSSS on your boarding pass!] have to pay for what used to be free; you get no discount.
They don't need to introduce a HBO fare to raise prices or vice-versa.
But I don't think that one can disagree that airfares have gone down on average in the past few years. Of course, it depends on routes, competition and fuel prices.
And I am old enough to factor in my overall price taking into account the various services I use (extra bag, seat assignment and the like). Paying for services that I don't use is where I feel frustrated.
A significant number of people, even if a minority, travel hand luggage on TATL, Admittedly this is a larger percentage in J, but young people do spend a long week end in NY or Paris.
#17
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
That's nonsense, I never travel with checked bags when going to the US for business trips and the only SSSS I've ever gotten was because I departed from Dublin rather then Amsterdam with my dad and brother because it saved 3x€600 when travelling J
#18
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
The only times I've ever got SSSS were when I was flying without checked luggage.
#20
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
I think caliform meant that many people are still willing to lower their comfort on the flights to get lower prices (i.e. there's room for even more narrower Y seats etc.).
Last edited by Sjondorn; Dec 8, 2017 at 6:23 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
In their effort to lower price, airlines do reduce comfort in Y such as reduced seat pitch, narrower seats.This is quite different from what I was addressing.
On the other hand, having a light fare with a charge for checking a bag does not reduce comfort; it just introduces differential pricing.
I must confess that I have not traveled longhaul in Y for decades, so my reaction was knee jerk. But I am a big fan of Easyjet compared to AF for French and European flights. I like to have the comfort to select my seat at booking like front row or extra legroom which also buys me priority boarding. I like to be able to purchase/select food onboard rather than the very limited choice of drinks and sucré/salé. I don't consider having to pay for a checked bag as a reduction in comfort. All the extras are known and paid at time of booking, so it is easy to compare airlines and make an educated choice.
It could be that some infrequent pax do not see through the price and fare conditions and get "cheated' when comparing options. But airlines tend to be very explicit nowadays about those; at least they should be.
PS: I believe that the new light/standard/standard+ system is consistent with the light/standard/flex mediumhaul system introduced a year ago. A significant number of pax are from/to another European country. It was strange that the lowest TATL fares allowed them a free bag on the European portion.
Last edited by brunos; Dec 8, 2017 at 4:55 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
Let me detail my point.
In their effort to lower price, airlines do reduce comfort in Y such as reduced seat pitch, narrower seats.This is quite different from what I was addressing.
On the other hand, having a light fare with a charge for checking a bag does not reduce comfort; it just introduces differential pricing.
In their effort to lower price, airlines do reduce comfort in Y such as reduced seat pitch, narrower seats.This is quite different from what I was addressing.
On the other hand, having a light fare with a charge for checking a bag does not reduce comfort; it just introduces differential pricing.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
#27
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,051
Let me detail my point.
In their effort to lower price, airlines do reduce comfort in Y such as reduced seat pitch, narrower seats.This is quite different from what I was addressing.
On the other hand, having a light fare with a charge for checking a bag does not reduce comfort; it just introduces differential pricing.
In their effort to lower price, airlines do reduce comfort in Y such as reduced seat pitch, narrower seats.This is quite different from what I was addressing.
On the other hand, having a light fare with a charge for checking a bag does not reduce comfort; it just introduces differential pricing.
At least AFKL gives a free bag to elites even on light fares, unlike others (LH as an example.)
I must confess that I have not traveled longhaul in Y for decades, so my reaction was knee jerk. But I am a big fan of Easyjet compared to AF for French and European flights. I like to have the comfort to select my seat at booking like front row or extra legroom which also buys me priority boarding. I like to be able to purchase/select food onboard rather than the very limited choice of drinks and sucré/salé. I don't consider having to pay for a checked bag as a reduction in comfort. All the extras are known and paid at time of booking, so it is easy to compare airlines and make an educated choice.
It could be that some infrequent pax do not see through the price and fare conditions and get "cheated' when comparing options. But airlines tend to be very explicit nowadays about those; at least they should be.
It could be that some infrequent pax do not see through the price and fare conditions and get "cheated' when comparing options. But airlines tend to be very explicit nowadays about those; at least they should be.
The problem is, it's only easy if you do the legwork, and compare on airline websites. Bag is a relatively simple thing, but it falls apart when you start talking about extra space seats and so on. You can't put that as a search option at, say, Kayak...
PS: I believe that the new light/standard/standard+ system is consistent with the light/standard/flex mediumhaul system introduced a year ago. A significant number of pax are from/to another European country. It was strange that the lowest TATL fares allowed them a free bag on the European portion.
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
The problem is, it's only easy if you do the legwork, and compare on airline websites. Bag is a relatively simple thing, but it falls apart when you start talking about extra space seats and so on. You can't put that as a search option at, say, Kayak...
I don't find it strange at all. If I travel, say, PRG-ATL, I travel PRG-ATL and not PRG-AMS, buy baggage there, and carry on with AMS-ATL. 99% of people buy a ticket to travel out and then back, as 2 units.
The other point was about "consistency". As you are probably aware, internal costing is very important when you sell a PRG-CDG-ATL. At AF, the European management tribe and the longhaul management tribe fight about internal pricing as it affects the bottom line of both tribes. Now that European fares include an HBO fare, this development for longhaul is logical. And it is easy for a pax to add a checked bag if needed..
#30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,051
I agree on your first point that it does take time to compare fares on different airlines (say for European or domestic travel). But that is unavoidable. Fares conditions differ a lot. If you don't want seat assignment and a checked bag, the comparison is a bit easier, but you still need to consider what "free" services you get. I often compare fares on AF and EZY and it takes very little time to figure out the relative cost/benefits. The time when all airlines provided rather similar services (one checked bag, meal served, similar fare conditions) is gone. Indeed, kayak is much less relevant today.
The other point was about "consistency". As you are probably aware, internal costing is very important when you sell a PRG-CDG-ATL. At AF, the European management tribe and the longhaul management tribe fight about internal pricing as it affects the bottom line of both tribes. Now that European fares include an HBO fare, this development for longhaul is logical. And it is easy for a pax to add a checked bag if needed..