Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Jun 8, 2018, 3:07 am
#1696
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,006
It's easier in general if you fly a mix of shorthaul eco/shorthaul biz/longhaul eco
- In general the number of award miles has decreased significantly
- The duration of status has decreased if you change level. It is now 12 months from the day you get your new level, it was previous the reminder of the year when you achieve a new level + the subsequent year
- The new dynamic pricing of awards leaves everyone confused and baffled, there is no logic to be found. Same for upgrades with money, prices have increased.
- The monthy calender has disappeared, now you have to search per day which is user unfriendly
- Claiming missing miles online has now become impossible
- KLM and AF apps are not synchronized. In the AF app for instance some Skyteam member bookings cannot be added
- The Ultimates keep experiencing inconsistent service on board and at airports (notably AMS)
- The AFKL Plat AMEX card has become much less interesting for those who previously received high level miles based on expenditure compared to the current fixed conversion of 60 XP’s
- KL still charges 10 euro fee even if you use the AFKL Amex loyalty card.
On the upside, the new programme offers the following benefits… uhh?
More miles... if you fly on high-cost routes I guess? Very rare.
well that's about it.
Jun 8, 2018, 9:21 pm
#1698
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Because for DL metal, Flying Blue still uses a distance-based miles-accrual scheme, whereas for AFKL marketed flights, use is made of a pure revenue-based accrual scheme. All things being equal, you will get more miles on a short DL flight than on an AFKL long haul.
Jun 9, 2018, 10:42 am
#1699
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 905
I hope this is the correct thread to ask this question: I'm looking at KLM 'H' class fare from AMS-MXP. I can see from wheretocredit that it will earn 0 miles.....but in the new program does 0 miles mean 0 XP..? It used to be simple to use the FB calculator for calculations but it has gone and I can't see any definition of "eligible flights" in respect of XP earning.
Jun 9, 2018, 12:04 pm
#1700
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
I hope this is the correct thread to ask this question: I'm looking at KLM 'H' class fare from AMS-MXP. I can see from wheretocredit that it will earn 0 miles.....but in the new program does 0 miles mean 0 XP..? It used to be simple to use the FB calculator for calculations but it has gone and I can't see any definition of "eligible flights" in respect of XP earning.
There is no reason why a KL H class fare would earn 0 miles in FB. All revenue classes are in principle earning based on ticket price. There may be issues with some TO fares which credit the old way based on booking class and distance but ordinary published fares should earn normally as per the new scheme.I also do not see where on wheretocredit it says that KL H class fares earn 0.
Jun 9, 2018, 12:33 pm
#1701
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,909
I hope this is the correct thread to ask this question: I'm looking at KLM 'H' class fare from AMS-MXP. I can see from wheretocredit that it will earn 0 miles.....but in the new program does 0 miles mean 0 XP..? It used to be simple to use the FB calculator for calculations but it has gone and I can't see any definition of "eligible flights" in respect of XP earning.
There is no reason why a KL H class fare would earn 0 miles in FB. All revenue classes are in principle earning based on ticket price. There may be issues with some TO fares which credit the old way based on booking class and distance but ordinary published fares should earn normally as per the new scheme.I also do not see where on wheretocredit it says that KL H class fares earn 0.
Jun 9, 2018, 1:13 pm
#1702
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
I hope this is the correct thread to ask this question: I'm looking at KLM 'H' class fare from AMS-MXP. I can see from wheretocredit that it will earn 0 miles.....but in the new program does 0 miles mean 0 XP..? It used to be simple to use the FB calculator for calculations but it has gone and I can't see any definition of "eligible flights" in respect of XP earning.
Jun 9, 2018, 7:21 pm
#1703
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 905
OK, thanks for clarifying: I can see where I was confused; I was using the calculator function on wheretocredit, looking at a specific flight sector ( KL, AMS-MXP, in 'H') rather than the drop down menu. The calculator shows zero miles, presumably because of the formula of €4 per mile ( although it doesn't say formula based, just 0 miles). I get it now, a relief.
Jun 9, 2018, 11:10 pm
#1704
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indonesia
Programs: Flying Blue PE, Garuda FF Gold, Shangr-La Gold, KrisFlyer SQ
Posts: 79
[QUOTE=Fabo.sk;29843003]Only if you want to jump 2+ ranks in one year. Going up one rank or re-qualifying is roughly the same.
This has nothing to do with the changes. It was fully possible to claim miles in early May.
- One could argue that this technical glitch is a result of further implementation of the new programme
This has nothing to do with the changes. It was fully possible to claim miles in early May.
- One could argue that this technical glitch is a result of further implementation of the new programme
Jun 10, 2018, 9:59 pm
#1705
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
The Flying Blue Weimar Republic
The Flying Blue Weimar Republic. During the Weimar Republic, inflation grew at an alarming rate, as the value of the German (Papier)Mark plummeted at an equally fast pace. April 1st will remain a turning point in the value of the Flying Blue mile. Overnight, it nose-dived to an unprecedented level, as the frequent-flier program moved to a full-fledged revenue-based miles-accrual scheme. Between April 1st and June 1st it was not quite clear, however, how the meager miles earnings would translate into purchasing power, notably in terms of award tickets and upgrades to the next class of service. For all we knew, as the number of miles accrued on AF/KL marketed flights plunged to dismal depths (surprisingly, to a much lesser extent on Skyteam-partner marketed flights, for which Flying Blue wisely kept a distance-based accrual scheme), so could have the amount of miles required for award tickets and upgrades. As we have witnessed it on this forum, thread after thread and through random experiences, such has not been the case. Quite on the contrary. By virtue of a dynamic-pricing scheme, barring rare favorable circumstances, Flying Blue has effectively lowered our purchasing power to a level hitherto never attained.
How bad is it in practice? In 2005, the newly introduced Flying Blue program left Air France loyal customers aghast as the generous Frequence Plus miles-accrual scheme was replaced by a more cunning one. In a sense, Flying Blue was ahead of its time, pioneering in (concealed) revenue-based earning, whereby passengers would receive a fraction of the flown miles as a function of the class of reservation. Back then, most, if not all major airlines in the industry, especially in north America, were still crediting frequent-flier miles accounts on a 1:1 basis. Notwithstanding harsh comments and words of recrimination, Flying Blue maintained its course, and the passengers taken to the cleaners remained for the most part faithful to the airline. It is, however, a risky gamble to assume that the airline most loyal customers will swallow once again hook, line and sinker the greedy rules of the overhauled frequent-flier program. So, to what extent is the latter lowering our purchasing power? Let me answer this question with a route I am well-familiarized with, namely that between CDG and ORD, spanning 4,140 miles. Before April 1st, flying in the lowest class of reservation of the premium-economy cabin (A), a Platinum member of the Flying Blue program would accrue 100% of the flown miles, or 4,140 level miles plus 4,140 bonus miles by virtue of the Platinum status, that is 8,280 miles one way. Since April 1st, miles accrual on AF/KL marketed flights has become subservient to the amount of money given to the airline, namely the airfare plus the carrier surcharge. For a recent round trip I paid $1,070, that is 908 euros, which include an airfare of 509 euros and a 257-euro surcharge that go to the airline, I was expected to get 766/2 times 8, or 3,064 miles each way (in practice, I accrued an abysmal 1,952 miles; see note below), that is 2.7 times less than before April 1st. At the airport and on the aircraft, I was proposed an upgrade to the J-cabin in exchange of 47,000 miles, when before June 1st, the same upgrade would cost 30,000 miles, that is, an increase of about 1.6. Said differently, before April 1st, in a matter of two round trips between ORD and CDG, I would accrue enough Flying Blue miles (33,120 miles) to afford an upgrade on one transatlantic flight. Today, flying in the same conditions (A reservation class), I need to do eight round trips to get one upgrade to the J-cabin.
Crossing the line. More than attuning with competing frequent-flier programs, Flying Blue, just like in 2005, went one step beyond, crossing this time a line that other airlines would never cross lest scaring off and losing a fraction of their clientele. While most, if not all contenders in the industry multiply by a factor of 11 the amount of dollars or euros they collect from their top-tier customers, Flying Blue skimps on miles accrual with a perplexing factor of 8. Reinventing the Flying Blue program (April 1st) and the purchase of award flights and upgrades (June 1st) also comes at the worst possible time, when the airline is in turmoil and imperiled by repeated strikes from February to May, which have guzzled a good chunk of the profits generated by KLM and to a lesser extent by Air France. The greedy rules of the revamped frequent-flier program might have been better perceived, had the airline made the structural changes imposed by a fiercer competition, notably by renewing its fleet, and updating its oldest cabins. With the threat of more strikes as the summer begins, the overhauled frequent-flier program and its disembodied benefits cast an unflattering light onto the airline, which aspires to receive unconditional support from its broad base of customers. By diluting and compromising the concept of loyalty, the Flying Blue strategists are sending a dangerous message to the most faithful customers of the airline, now being given the opportunity to explore alternate options with a different alliance.
Macaron54
PS/ It has come to my attention that computation of miles accrual on AF/KL marketed flight is erroneous. Flying Blue appears to fortuitously forget to take into account the carrier surcharge, as described on its website. Furthermore, when the airline ticket is not paid in euros, it remains unclear what conversion rate is being utilized to determine the correct amount of miles. In short, I am starting to believe that the figures shown on my Flying Blue account are spit by a random-number generator and have little to no basis in fact.
How bad is it in practice? In 2005, the newly introduced Flying Blue program left Air France loyal customers aghast as the generous Frequence Plus miles-accrual scheme was replaced by a more cunning one. In a sense, Flying Blue was ahead of its time, pioneering in (concealed) revenue-based earning, whereby passengers would receive a fraction of the flown miles as a function of the class of reservation. Back then, most, if not all major airlines in the industry, especially in north America, were still crediting frequent-flier miles accounts on a 1:1 basis. Notwithstanding harsh comments and words of recrimination, Flying Blue maintained its course, and the passengers taken to the cleaners remained for the most part faithful to the airline. It is, however, a risky gamble to assume that the airline most loyal customers will swallow once again hook, line and sinker the greedy rules of the overhauled frequent-flier program. So, to what extent is the latter lowering our purchasing power? Let me answer this question with a route I am well-familiarized with, namely that between CDG and ORD, spanning 4,140 miles. Before April 1st, flying in the lowest class of reservation of the premium-economy cabin (A), a Platinum member of the Flying Blue program would accrue 100% of the flown miles, or 4,140 level miles plus 4,140 bonus miles by virtue of the Platinum status, that is 8,280 miles one way. Since April 1st, miles accrual on AF/KL marketed flights has become subservient to the amount of money given to the airline, namely the airfare plus the carrier surcharge. For a recent round trip I paid $1,070, that is 908 euros, which include an airfare of 509 euros and a 257-euro surcharge that go to the airline, I was expected to get 766/2 times 8, or 3,064 miles each way (in practice, I accrued an abysmal 1,952 miles; see note below), that is 2.7 times less than before April 1st. At the airport and on the aircraft, I was proposed an upgrade to the J-cabin in exchange of 47,000 miles, when before June 1st, the same upgrade would cost 30,000 miles, that is, an increase of about 1.6. Said differently, before April 1st, in a matter of two round trips between ORD and CDG, I would accrue enough Flying Blue miles (33,120 miles) to afford an upgrade on one transatlantic flight. Today, flying in the same conditions (A reservation class), I need to do eight round trips to get one upgrade to the J-cabin.
Crossing the line. More than attuning with competing frequent-flier programs, Flying Blue, just like in 2005, went one step beyond, crossing this time a line that other airlines would never cross lest scaring off and losing a fraction of their clientele. While most, if not all contenders in the industry multiply by a factor of 11 the amount of dollars or euros they collect from their top-tier customers, Flying Blue skimps on miles accrual with a perplexing factor of 8. Reinventing the Flying Blue program (April 1st) and the purchase of award flights and upgrades (June 1st) also comes at the worst possible time, when the airline is in turmoil and imperiled by repeated strikes from February to May, which have guzzled a good chunk of the profits generated by KLM and to a lesser extent by Air France. The greedy rules of the revamped frequent-flier program might have been better perceived, had the airline made the structural changes imposed by a fiercer competition, notably by renewing its fleet, and updating its oldest cabins. With the threat of more strikes as the summer begins, the overhauled frequent-flier program and its disembodied benefits cast an unflattering light onto the airline, which aspires to receive unconditional support from its broad base of customers. By diluting and compromising the concept of loyalty, the Flying Blue strategists are sending a dangerous message to the most faithful customers of the airline, now being given the opportunity to explore alternate options with a different alliance.
Macaron54
PS/ It has come to my attention that computation of miles accrual on AF/KL marketed flight is erroneous. Flying Blue appears to fortuitously forget to take into account the carrier surcharge, as described on its website. Furthermore, when the airline ticket is not paid in euros, it remains unclear what conversion rate is being utilized to determine the correct amount of miles. In short, I am starting to believe that the figures shown on my Flying Blue account are spit by a random-number generator and have little to no basis in fact.
Jun 11, 2018, 2:35 am
#1706
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
Only if you want to jump 2+ ranks in one year. Going up one rank or re-qualifying is roughly the same.
Jun 11, 2018, 2:48 am
#1707
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
I've not flown longhaul AFKL so have no tickets with a carrier surcharge; so I can't verify this.
Can you upload the proof?
Furthermore, when the airline ticket is not paid in euros, it remains unclear what conversion rate is being utilized to determine the correct amount of miles. In short, I am starting to believe that the figures shown on my Flying Blue account are spit by a random-number generator and have little to no basis in fact.
Jun 11, 2018, 4:42 am
#1708
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,006
You've misquoted Fabo.sk, or rather quoted the response out of its original context, which was:
...
The response above was in relation to your allegation that it was harder to get status. Fabo.sk's statement is essentially correct - it has gotten harder to acquire status in FB only if you are trying to go up more than one level in a single 12-month period, as compared to the old rules. For maintaining status, or going up one level, nothing much has changed (and, in fact, in some cases it may be easier)
...
The response above was in relation to your allegation that it was harder to get status. Fabo.sk's statement is essentially correct - it has gotten harder to acquire status in FB only if you are trying to go up more than one level in a single 12-month period, as compared to the old rules. For maintaining status, or going up one level, nothing much has changed (and, in fact, in some cases it may be easier)
One could not. Given that it was possible to claim miles in May, which is way after the implementation of the new programme, this has to be a completely separate mess.
Jun 11, 2018, 5:23 am
#1710
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
The whole "any seat available" thing is supposed to be in effect but I'm still not getting anything to MCO less than 3 months out, despite there being no lack of availability for cash bookings. MIA appears to be slightly better, but the whole award booking tool is even worse now than it was before June 1st. That is assuming you have enough miles to get an outrageously priced award to begin with.
Is calling to book the only option or am I missing something? I hate going in blind.
Is calling to book the only option or am I missing something? I hate going in blind.