Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Apr 20, 2018, 6:23 am
#1471
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Abonnés are indeed among the most screwed ones. The worst being those connecting in PAR. Think about NCE-ORY-LRT for instance. A friend of mine is commuting every week on that route.
For a Platinum with Abonné fare the return did net 4,000 level miles and 4,000 award miles (total 8,000 miles). Abonné fare being 644 EUR excluding taxes, it now provides 5,152 miles.
Minus 35%
And we talk here about their most loyal (Platinum) and profitable (Abonné) customers, for the domestic market of course.
For a Platinum with Abonné fare the return did net 4,000 level miles and 4,000 award miles (total 8,000 miles). Abonné fare being 644 EUR excluding taxes, it now provides 5,152 miles.
Minus 35%
And we talk here about their most loyal (Platinum) and profitable (Abonné) customers, for the domestic market of course.
- ORY-BES-ORY
- S fare (Abonné) is 398 EUR excl. taxes
- 3184 miles
Minus 20%
Apr 20, 2018, 7:02 am
#1472
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
This is probably one of the most extreme example but certainly the European connecting segments of deeply discounted long-haul business class are, by very far, where the worst degradation has occurred, far far worse than abonnés fares.
Apr 20, 2018, 8:10 am
#1473
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Agreed that some (deeply) discounted European or long-haul business fares see a much more significant decrease than 20%. And I sympathise with you an this case.
What puzzles me though is that Abonnés fares, while being discounted, are among the highest fares so most likely a great source of revenue for AF. What a strange way to reward loyal customers!
At least with long haul you have the choice to fly other airlines, including SkyTeam ones. And get more miles. Typically true on the SIN-CDG-SIN route where flying via SGN on VN on the cheapest and widely available business fare will yield 31k miles (Platinum bonus included) whereas the same direct flight with AF (or via AMS with KL) in I class will earn 22k. Oh, and did I mention I can almost buy 2 VN tickets for the price of the AF one?
What puzzles me though is that Abonnés fares, while being discounted, are among the highest fares so most likely a great source of revenue for AF. What a strange way to reward loyal customers!
At least with long haul you have the choice to fly other airlines, including SkyTeam ones. And get more miles. Typically true on the SIN-CDG-SIN route where flying via SGN on VN on the cheapest and widely available business fare will yield 31k miles (Platinum bonus included) whereas the same direct flight with AF (or via AMS with KL) in I class will earn 22k. Oh, and did I mention I can almost buy 2 VN tickets for the price of the AF one?
Apr 20, 2018, 8:22 pm
#1474
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
Agreed that some (deeply) discounted European or long-haul business fares see a much more significant decrease than 20%. And I sympathise with you an this case.
What puzzles me though is that Abonnés fares, while being discounted, are among the highest fares so most likely a great source of revenue for AF. What a strange way to reward loyal customers!
At least with long haul you have the choice to fly other airlines, including SkyTeam ones. And get more miles. Typically true on the SIN-CDG-SIN route where flying via SGN on VN on the cheapest and widely available business fare will yield 31k miles (Platinum bonus included) whereas the same direct flight with AF (or via AMS with KL) in I class will earn 22k. Oh, and did I mention I can almost buy 2 VN tickets for the price of the AF one?
What puzzles me though is that Abonnés fares, while being discounted, are among the highest fares so most likely a great source of revenue for AF. What a strange way to reward loyal customers!
At least with long haul you have the choice to fly other airlines, including SkyTeam ones. And get more miles. Typically true on the SIN-CDG-SIN route where flying via SGN on VN on the cheapest and widely available business fare will yield 31k miles (Platinum bonus included) whereas the same direct flight with AF (or via AMS with KL) in I class will earn 22k. Oh, and did I mention I can almost buy 2 VN tickets for the price of the AF one?
"You already get great benefit from the Abonnee card" and you get a lot of miles as it is an expensive fare.
And frankly 20% decrease is very little and probably less than the average decrease.
The decrease can be brutal for pax based outside of France and buying discounted longhaul business class. And that is a competitive market.
Apr 21, 2018, 12:03 am
#1475
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
The cheap Business and First class fares will be indeed the ones with the most drastic decrease in miles earning with the new system. It can be something like -50%.
Apr 21, 2018, 12:20 am
#1476
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 500
Apr 21, 2018, 5:29 am
#1477
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
One of my forthcoming flights under the new Flying Blue is on a KLM discounted long haul business class ticket which also see a massive reduction in earned Miles when compared with the old Award Miles. As a Platinum tier (elite bonus 100%) I get 8 Miles / €1 so my WAW-AMS-XMN-AMS-WAW ticket should earn me €930 x 8 = 7840 Miles and 102 XP. Under the old system it would be:
WAW-AMS-WAW (sub-booking class J = 250% and 687 miles on Great Circle Mapper) gives: 2 x [(687 x 2.5) + (687 x 1.0)] = 4810 Award Miles.
AMS-XMN-AMS (sub-booking class Z = 125% and 5801 miles on Great Circle Mapper) gives: 2 x [(5801 x 1.25) + (5801 x 1.0)] = 26104 Award Miles.
So from 30914 Award Miles down to 7840 Miles is a reduction of 75%. This leads me to favour non AF-KL SkyTeam airlines in the future - well done AF-KL!!!!
WAW-AMS-WAW (sub-booking class J = 250% and 687 miles on Great Circle Mapper) gives: 2 x [(687 x 2.5) + (687 x 1.0)] = 4810 Award Miles.
AMS-XMN-AMS (sub-booking class Z = 125% and 5801 miles on Great Circle Mapper) gives: 2 x [(5801 x 1.25) + (5801 x 1.0)] = 26104 Award Miles.
So from 30914 Award Miles down to 7840 Miles is a reduction of 75%. This leads me to favour non AF-KL SkyTeam airlines in the future - well done AF-KL!!!!
Apr 21, 2018, 7:18 am
#1478
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,378
WAW-AMS-WAW (sub-booking class J = 250% and 687 miles on Great Circle Mapper) gives: 2 x [(687 x 2.5) + (687 x 1.0)] = 4810 Award Miles.
Apr 21, 2018, 8:05 am
#1479
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
Apr 22, 2018, 9:51 am
#1480
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 223
I just checked my Flying Blue profile and note that I have got 5 more XP’s than I should have. I had claimed for missing points at the time of the change over and I received the missing ones as requested. The 5 additional points are listed as “air adjustment” points as opposed to “XP’s offered by flying blue” for the ones given during the change over period.
Should I complain and tell them they have given me too much 😀
Should I complain and tell them they have given me too much 😀
Apr 22, 2018, 9:55 am
#1481
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
I just checked my Flying Blue profile and note that I have got 5 more XP’s than I should have. I had claimed for missing points at the time of the change over and I received the missing ones as requested. The 5 additional points are listed as “air adjustment” points as opposed to “XP’s offered by flying blue” for the ones given during the change over period.
Should I complain and tell them they have given me too much 😀
Should I complain and tell them they have given me too much 😀
Apr 22, 2018, 12:59 pm
#1482
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,339
I had to book a flight that is somewhat more expensive due to it taking place during NL school holidays in May. Compared a few fares for AMS-ATH:
KLM eco 511 euro, AZ eco 370 euro, AZ business 470 euro
So I went with the business fare, earning 60 XP rather than 10 with KLM. That's 33% of Gold re-qalification done with only one short-haul roundtrip. This is a much more comfortable way of mileage (XP?) running than I'm used to..! I don't have many other Skyteam flights scheduled yet this year, but a couple of long-haul flights for work may just be enough to actually allow me to requalify (which I had pretty much given up on). Great for me, not so great for AFKL as it is now beneficial to fly other carriers..
One question regarding award miles on other carriers: Is there still a minimum earning, like in the past? Can't really find anything on this through the (rather minimal) FB website.
KLM eco 511 euro, AZ eco 370 euro, AZ business 470 euro
So I went with the business fare, earning 60 XP rather than 10 with KLM. That's 33% of Gold re-qalification done with only one short-haul roundtrip. This is a much more comfortable way of mileage (XP?) running than I'm used to..! I don't have many other Skyteam flights scheduled yet this year, but a couple of long-haul flights for work may just be enough to actually allow me to requalify (which I had pretty much given up on). Great for me, not so great for AFKL as it is now beneficial to fly other carriers..
One question regarding award miles on other carriers: Is there still a minimum earning, like in the past? Can't really find anything on this through the (rather minimal) FB website.
Apr 22, 2018, 4:28 pm
#1483
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
So I went with the business fare, earning 60 XP rather than 10 with KLM. That's 33% of Gold re-qalification done with only one short-haul roundtrip. This is a much more comfortable way of mileage (XP?) running than I'm used to..! I don't have many other Skyteam flights scheduled yet this year, but a couple of long-haul flights for work may just be enough to actually allow me to requalify (which I had pretty much given up on). Great for me, not so great for AFKL as it is now beneficial to fly other carriers..
One question regarding award miles on other carriers: Is there still a minimum earning, like in the past? Can't really find anything on this through the (rather minimal) FB website.
One question regarding award miles on other carriers: Is there still a minimum earning, like in the past? Can't really find anything on this through the (rather minimal) FB website.
Apr 22, 2018, 8:49 pm
#1484
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Here is another personal example of impacts of the new scheme when flying long haul, valid for both Eco and Business cabins.
I fly regularly (6-10 times a year) between SIN and CDG and pay tickets out of my pocket so quite price sensitive. The common trick when buying business class was to fly out of ZYR/BRU when leaving Europe as it is cheap and easy to position there from Paris. Benefits were:
- (much) cheaper fares
- more miles, including the CDG-ZYR leg that I almost never flew except when doing back-to-back.
Now it is still (much) cheaper to fly out of ZYR albeit one subsequently get less miles!
And when buying business class I can get a much better value proposition flying VN or SV and crediting to FB.
That is not rant against the changes ; and I am not leaving FB. Just a basic acknowledgement that these changes tend to make me flying less AF/KL and more the competition.
I fly regularly (6-10 times a year) between SIN and CDG and pay tickets out of my pocket so quite price sensitive. The common trick when buying business class was to fly out of ZYR/BRU when leaving Europe as it is cheap and easy to position there from Paris. Benefits were:
- (much) cheaper fares
- more miles, including the CDG-ZYR leg that I almost never flew except when doing back-to-back.
Now it is still (much) cheaper to fly out of ZYR albeit one subsequently get less miles!
And when buying business class I can get a much better value proposition flying VN or SV and crediting to FB.
That is not rant against the changes ; and I am not leaving FB. Just a basic acknowledgement that these changes tend to make me flying less AF/KL and more the competition.
Apr 23, 2018, 5:24 am
#1485
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 500
I have also been credited by FB Support for the original route (ATL-SYR-JFK-CDG-AMS) after the AF strike that made Delta to change my route to direct ATL-AMS insted. Must be alot of those errends now when people wants all XP they can get. In my case +27 is alot. I will almost make it to Gold this year...
Last edited by criced; Apr 23, 2018 at 5:35 am