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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

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Old Apr 4, 2018, 7:27 am
  #1321  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by foxtwo
So I took some Delta flights on the 30th of March which were credited on 03 April.
The AMS-PDX segment in W is the one that concerns me. They posted 11,226 Miles and 10 XP under the new system. I was expecting credit under the old system as 11,226 Miles and 6,232 Level Miles = 31.16 XP! The other 2 segments of my trip that day do not interest me that much as they were relatively short segments and in a 25% earning class anyway. But I do think that this is a big difference. Should I call the Platinum line or is it recommended to write to Flying Blue about this? Or would it be better to take a ticket at the Lounge before my next flight?
Called the Platinum line and they said there is nothing that they can do except write a "complaint" to the Customer Care department which they did in this case on my behalf. I will see how it pans out and keep you updated. I don't need the XP right now as I already re-qualified for Platinum. But it is nice to have as rollover because you never know how your travel pattern goes in the future.
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 8:15 am
  #1322  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: BA BAEC Gold (oW Emerald), AF/KLM FB Plat (ST E+), *Alliance Nada
Posts: 299
DL Domestic First Class & XP

Hello all,

Apologies in advance if this was already addressed somewhere (haven’t seen it), but can someone enlighten me on the following:

- if I fly a U.S. domestic flight on Delta in « First Class », does it count, for the purpose of XP, as « Business Class » (6 XP) or « First Class » (10 XP)?

- how about a flight LGA-YUL? Will it be 15 XP (Business) or 25 XP (First)?

Thanks for your help!
-vinnyc
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 8:48 am
  #1323  
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Originally Posted by criced
I got my first credits after the changes.

I flew PTY-ATL in Delta First on the 2 april. Was bookingclass Z. Only got 15 XP for this "medium" flight, and thats what they give for Business. So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.
Not anymore. US domestic first class on American now mostly maps onto business booking classes for BAEC purposes, and therefore you would only get business class tier points. As to central America flights, American would in any event have classified the premium class on these flights as "business" rather than "first".
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 8:51 am
  #1324  
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
I had my first post-April 1st flights posting to my FB account: 30 XPs (two intra-European business class segments) and a measly 404 miles. Ouch, that was painful... Admittedly, it was a very cheap business class tickets and these are intra-European legs of an inter-continental itinerary so, if they pro-rate to distance, those legs will be a small component of the overall ticket. Still painful, though.
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 8:52 am
  #1325  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
Originally Posted by vinnyc
Hello all,

Apologies in advance if this was already addressed somewhere (haven’t seen it), but can someone enlighten me on the following:

- if I fly a U.S. domestic flight on Delta in « First Class », does it count, for the purpose of XP, as « Business Class » (6 XP) or « First Class » (10 XP)?

- how about a flight LGA-YUL? Will it be 15 XP (Business) or 25 XP (First)?

Thanks for your help!
-vinnyc
I can only reply for a transcon in Delta One: 6 XP, so not really your question since I believe Delta One is considered business, not first, by Delta. Very curious about this too but I would expect to see domestic F to actually be treated as domestic C (6 XP) and flights to Canada to be treated as international C (15 XP) and that one would be pretty good: if CDG-AMS in C pays 15 XP, LGA-YUL should be the same. Although it is weird that a 6-hour S1,500 transcon pays 60% less XP than a 1-hour $500 hop in a regional jet. Looking forward to confirmation though...
af fp is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2018, 9:14 am
  #1326  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: flying blue
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by AlexBelt
Looks really cheap compared with the old ones...sad!

Alex
Looks indeed CHEAP, especially those black words “FlyingBlue for me” with white background. Pfffff......
Sharon Chan is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2018, 9:39 am
  #1327  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: FB Platinum, SAS Gold , HH Diamond
Posts: 152
May I ask if they also changed the award ticket surchages ? Normally I paid 12.500 Miles + 33,XX Euro for a flight from Germany to Russia and Back to Germany 12.500 Miles + ~5€ so in total about 40€ + 25.000 Miles.
Now I pay the same amount of miles but 117€ to Russia and 87€ from Russia. That's so sad...for the 200€ I could buy a ticket ..no need for miles..
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 10:24 am
  #1328  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS, BER, KUL, SIN
Programs: Miles and More
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by wuzziduzziman
Fully agreed. It is obvious that a main objective of "FB reinvented" is the reduction of Elites (as cost reduction measure)
Yup, people who do mostly short hauls will need to fly more to get elite status, but people who mostly fly long haul will need to fly slightly fewer flights to maintain their elite status.
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 11:37 am
  #1329  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by vinnyc
Hello all,

Apologies in advance if this was already addressed somewhere (haven’t seen it), but can someone enlighten me on the following:

- if I fly a U.S. domestic flight on Delta in « First Class », does it count, for the purpose of XP, as « Business Class » (6 XP) or « First Class » (10 XP)?

- how about a flight LGA-YUL? Will it be 15 XP (Business) or 25 XP (First)?

Thanks for your help!
-vinnyc
Originally Posted by af fp
I can only reply for a transcon in Delta One: 6 XP, so not really your question since I believe Delta One is considered business, not first, by Delta. Very curious about this too but I would expect to see domestic F to actually be treated as domestic C (6 XP) and flights to Canada to be treated as international C (15 XP) and that one would be pretty good: if CDG-AMS in C pays 15 XP, LGA-YUL should be the same. Although it is weird that a 6-hour S1,500 transcon pays 60% less XP than a 1-hour $500 hop in a regional jet. Looking forward to confirmation though...

According to the new "Flight type simulator" any US domestic flight will earn XP according to the domestic column of the XP chart. A US-Canada flight will earn in Medium (JFK-YUL) or Long 1 (JFK-YVR) columns of the XP chart. The logic behind it is solid in a way but in another way earning 2 XP for a 45 minute flight compared to earning 2 XP for a JFK-SFO or other transcontinental flight is not right.

The Delta earnings page (for Miles) shows a breakdown of which "category" the specific fares will fall in. You'll note they split it up into Delta International Long Haul and Delta Domestic & Regional International. The takeaway is that Delta First Class will fall into the Business Class segment when earning XP points. For Miles the earning rate is as it was before for "First Class". I've noticed that depending on the way the trip is ticketed, you can have a International Long Haul fare bucket (say, Z bucket) on a Delta Domestic or Regional International flight (ie. one of my upcoming trips has a segment ATL-JFK in the Z bucket instead of one of the "First Class" buckets).

Below bold is my added emphasis.
CABIN AND BOOKING CLASS EARNING %:
Delta International Long Haul (transatlantic and transpacific routes)
  • Business Cabin (Called Delta One) J, C: 175%; D, I: 150%; Z: 125%
  • Premium Economy Cabin (Called Delta Premium select) P: 200%; A: 175%; G: 125%,
  • Economy Cabin (Called Comfort +) W: 125%; (Called Main Cabin ) Y, B, M: 100%; H: 75%; Q, K, L: 50%; U, T, X, V; (Called Basic Economy) E: 25%
Delta Domestic & Regional International (for flights within North America, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, and flights from North America to Central America, the Caribbean and Columbia, Venezuela and Ecuador)
See how to earn Miles on flights with airline partners
  • Business Cabin (Called Domestic First class) F, P: 200%; A: 175%; G: 125%,
  • Economy Cabin (Called Comfort +) W: 125%; (Called Main Cabin ) Y, B, M, 100%; H: 75%; Q, K, L: 50%; U, T, X, V; (Called Basic Economy) E: 25%
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 11:47 am
  #1330  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Paris, France
Programs: UA LT Gold, Air France Platinum Ulti, AA 4MM EXP, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by foxtwo
Called the Platinum line and they said there is nothing that they can do except write a "complaint" to the Customer Care department which they did in this case on my behalf. I will see how it pans out and keep you updated. I don't need the XP right now as I already re-qualified for Platinum. But it is nice to have as rollover because you never know how your travel pattern goes in the future.
I had the same situation with flights taken on March 25 returning March 31 CDG-CAN-SGN in J and that were credited April 2
I was told by the Platinum desk that the new system was prevailing in this case because the flights were credited in April although flown in March. Interesting concept....
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 12:14 pm
  #1331  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,713
Originally Posted by criced
So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.
Not true.

Since 11 January 2017, AA Domestic F posts in BA Executive Club as if it was business [AA stopped issuing domestic First in F and A class, and re-coded all flights already issued for travel after that date so that the TP earning changed from what it was at the time tickets were booked. I got hit by this last year].

See under point 06 of this post in the BA forum:

Your guide to the Executive Club, attaining status and earning Avios | 2018 edition


see also: AA 2 class Domestic US50 First re-coded as J, D, I, R, C Nov 12, 2016

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Last edited by irishguy28; Apr 4, 2018 at 12:28 pm
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 12:33 pm
  #1332  
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Originally Posted by thierry
I was told by the Platinum desk that the new system was prevailing in this case because the flights were credited in April although flown in March. Interesting concept....
This is wrong. The date of credit doesn't count, the date of the flight does. Like when you fly on December 30, 2017 and this flight is only credited in january 2018: this flight counts for your 2017 status qualification. If you loose some miles because of the anticipated implementation of the new rule, you have grounds to complain.
Goldorak is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2018, 1:21 pm
  #1333  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 500
So if DL First not is First what is First then? 😄
Only La Premier?
criced is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2018, 1:26 pm
  #1334  
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Originally Posted by criced
So if DL First not is First what is First then? 😄
Only La Premier?
Of course, this is the only one . Or the other long-haul F of Skyteam airlines (KE, GA, etc)
We all know the domestic first of US airlines would be better classified as business. There's nothing luxury in those.
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Old Apr 4, 2018, 1:28 pm
  #1335  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
Probably Korean Air's first class too would work, and maybe some Chinese Skyteam partners have international first class. Maybe also AF-ticketed codeshare flights operated by a non-Skyteam member international first (e.g. Qantas or Etihad).
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