Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Apr 3, 2018, 2:08 pm
#1306
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
With the former level miles, I would requalify for platinum with just 2 round trips in La Première with enough rollover miles to only need one round trip the following year. Now it will be more difficult to maintain platinum and I may just drop out of FB with this change since I am only about halfway to lifetime. I do not know how many others there are like me, but I predict the number of elites will go down.
For me I'm essentially the same with a slight hint towards better off. My activity is mostly Europe based, transiting in Eco via AMS/CDG, qualifying previously on segments, I make the occasional long haul which previously counted next to nothing towards qualification. As Platinum, requalification based on non-domestic Europe segments is the same - 60 segments vs 60 * 5 XP. I now have the advantage that any long haul segment counts for at least twice a Europe segment, before it would have counted the same.
As an extra twist, I can book cheap Europe Business tickets that gain 3x the XP for approx 3x the cost of an Eco ticket, so for any segment runs that saves time - another plus.
The major minus is my miles earning is like being Ivory again. 4 segments on AF/KL used to typically earn 20-25% of 750, so 600-750 miles * 2 for Plat bonus. My 'incorrectly' posted trip on Saturday that stated I would earn 1200 miles, was posted according to the revenue based formula, giving me 644 miles...
Apr 3, 2018, 2:09 pm
#1307
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,722
With the former level miles, I would requalify for platinum with just 2 round trips in La Première with enough rollover miles to only need one round trip the following year. Now it will be more difficult to maintain platinum and I may just drop out of FB with this change since I am only about halfway to lifetime. I do not know how many others there are like me, but I predict the number of elites will go down.
That 2 La Première returns not only qualified you for Platinum, but apparently gave you in the order of 120,000 level miles based on what you wrote, it appears that you were not originating/terminating in Paris, but that each return involved 2 sectors per direction.
As such, it's hard to see that you won't earn enough XPs on these 2 trips to earn Platinum each year. The "shortest" La Première routes earn 40XP per sector; when a return includes 4 such sectors, your 2 trips per year would earn 320XP, 20 more than you need for Platinum. As such a ticket of necessity involves individual sectors of less than 3,500 miles, the "old" Level Mileage earning would have been a max of 8 total sectors of max 3,500 miles each, times 300%, equalling 84,000 Level Miles, or not much more than what you needed for Platinum under the old rules [this would not have been enough for Platinum with a French/Monagesque account].
To clarify - can you please specify what routes you are talking about?
Apr 3, 2018, 2:15 pm
#1308
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
I think the same, but it was likely one of the (unsaid) objectives. This is not unique to AFKL, but one of the problem airlines have to handle is to manage the number of Elites plus. Indeed those are increasing because airline traffic is increasing and people travel more. Then more people reaching Elite+ level enjoy their associated benefits. Results : priority lanes are archi crowded, as well as lounges and so the experience is less and less premium. You cannot constantly increase lounge surfaces and so there's a point where you need to try to reduce the number of eligible pax.
Apr 3, 2018, 2:22 pm
#1309
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
nothing special to explain. San Gottardo was saying, as Platinum for life, that there was no XPs counter on his FB statement, and that he wanted to follow them in order to see if he could approach/reach the Ultimate threshold.
So, if FB doesn't display the XPs you have earned, then the easy solution is to list your flights flown since the beginning of the year in an excel spreadsheet and track your XPs accordingly. Nothing special, as you can see !
So, if FB doesn't display the XPs you have earned, then the easy solution is to list your flights flown since the beginning of the year in an excel spreadsheet and track your XPs accordingly. Nothing special, as you can see !
Apr 3, 2018, 4:34 pm
#1312
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
So I took some Delta flights on the 30th of March which were credited on 03 April.
The AMS-PDX segment in W is the one that concerns me. They posted 11,226 Miles and 10 XP under the new system. I was expecting credit under the old system as 11,226 Miles and 6,232 Level Miles = 31.16 XP! The other 2 segments of my trip that day do not interest me that much as they were relatively short segments and in a 25% earning class anyway. But I do think that this is a big difference. Should I call the Platinum line or is it recommended to write to Flying Blue about this? Or would it be better to take a ticket at the Lounge before my next flight?
The AMS-PDX segment in W is the one that concerns me. They posted 11,226 Miles and 10 XP under the new system. I was expecting credit under the old system as 11,226 Miles and 6,232 Level Miles = 31.16 XP! The other 2 segments of my trip that day do not interest me that much as they were relatively short segments and in a 25% earning class anyway. But I do think that this is a big difference. Should I call the Platinum line or is it recommended to write to Flying Blue about this? Or would it be better to take a ticket at the Lounge before my next flight?
Apr 3, 2018, 7:30 pm
#1314
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 223
I had same issue as I flew Amsterdam-Moscow-Orenburg on 30th/31st March and only received a total of 7 XP for the two flights. I phoned up the platinum line and lady was a bit unsure and she spoke to her supervisor. She came and said it would be 7 XP in total for the two flights and tried to go through the new rules and earnings. I explained to her that I knew what they were but on their own advertising of the then XP scheme it clearly states any flights taken before April 1st would be converted to 7 XP's (no matter what class or distance flown). She said she would check up again and reply by email - I have already got email reply ready with a screenshot of their advertising blurb showing the 7 XP per flight.
I have not seen any email informing me of this correction.
Apr 3, 2018, 11:35 pm
#1315
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: KBL
Programs: FB Gold - M&S Gold
Posts: 279
Just booked a IST-ICN ticket for next month and it seems that they have not updated their system to predict how many miles you will get.
In the confirmation email with the details of your reservation, the name of the pax and the miles, it states 14654 miles but on my reservation in AF website it says 12192 miles. However I'm afraid both numbers are wrong since, having only gold status, none of those estimate appear to match the price I paid. I know that they exclude from the price the fees and government taxes and even if I don't have the exact breakdown of the price, 14654 miles would equal 116% of what I paid and 12192 miles would imply that 96% of the price paid is taken into account.
All that to say that I predict a bazillion of complaints and claims from angry customers who will receive a number of miles MUCH lower than what is stated in their booking.
In the confirmation email with the details of your reservation, the name of the pax and the miles, it states 14654 miles but on my reservation in AF website it says 12192 miles. However I'm afraid both numbers are wrong since, having only gold status, none of those estimate appear to match the price I paid. I know that they exclude from the price the fees and government taxes and even if I don't have the exact breakdown of the price, 14654 miles would equal 116% of what I paid and 12192 miles would imply that 96% of the price paid is taken into account.
All that to say that I predict a bazillion of complaints and claims from angry customers who will receive a number of miles MUCH lower than what is stated in their booking.
Last edited by Enthilza; Apr 4, 2018 at 12:58 am
Apr 4, 2018, 12:43 am
#1316
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,954
I think the same, but it was likely one of the (unsaid) objectives. This is not unique to AFKL, but one of the problem airlines have to handle is to manage the number of Elites plus. Indeed those are increasing because airline traffic is increasing and people travel more. Then more people reaching Elite+ level enjoy their associated benefits. Results : priority lanes are archi crowded, as well as lounges and so the experience is less and less premium. You cannot constantly increase lounge surfaces and so there's a point where you need to try to reduce the number of eligible pax.
1. The most profitable
2. That travel on the most competitive routes.
... Hence the disappointment of some current members.
And for miles, I don't know a lot of FB members that do not lose a lot with the new revenue-based model...
Apr 4, 2018, 2:28 am
#1317
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,060
nothing special to explain. San Gottardo was saying, as Platinum for life, that there was no XPs counter on his FB statement, and that he wanted to follow them in order to see if he could approach/reach the Ultimate threshold.
So, if FB doesn't display the XPs you have earned, then the easy solution is to list your flights flown since the beginning of the year in an excel spreadsheet and track your XPs accordingly. Nothing special, as you can see !
So, if FB doesn't display the XPs you have earned, then the easy solution is to list your flights flown since the beginning of the year in an excel spreadsheet and track your XPs accordingly. Nothing special, as you can see !
Apr 4, 2018, 3:21 am
#1318
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 240
Apr 4, 2018, 5:55 am
#1319
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 500
I got my first credits after the changes.
I flew PTY-ATL in Delta First on the 2 april. Was bookingclass Z. Only got 15 XP for this "medium" flight, and thats what they give for Business. So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.
I flew PTY-ATL in Delta First on the 2 april. Was bookingclass Z. Only got 15 XP for this "medium" flight, and thats what they give for Business. So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.
Apr 4, 2018, 7:24 am
#1320
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 215
I got my first credits after the changes.
I flew PTY-ATL in Delta First on the 2 april. Was bookingclass Z. Only got 15 XP for this "medium" flight, and thats what they give for Business. So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.
I flew PTY-ATL in Delta First on the 2 april. Was bookingclass Z. Only got 15 XP for this "medium" flight, and thats what they give for Business. So FB will not like others accept US First or Domestic First as First class. British Airways EC would have give tier points for First class if it was with American.