Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

Old Apr 3, 2018, 7:02 am
  #1291  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Why would you equate a "Light" fare with an award ticket?

If you check the pages for earning on the various airline partners, you will see the following (taken from the page for AF):

"Earning Miles and gaining XP isn't possible for: Reward tickets (tickets booked using Miles)"
I would (not equate but) compare a Light fare to an award ticket because with some airlines (such as DL or UA) the cheapest tickets (called Basic Economy) accrue less qualifying points whereas with FB it seems to accrue exactly the same.

More generally it seems that we will see a significant increase in the number of elite status holders if the XPs come so easily.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 7:08 am
  #1292  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Originally Posted by af fp
I would (not equate but) compare a Light fare to an award ticket because with some airlines (such as DL or UA) the cheapest tickets (called Basic Economy) accrue less qualifying points whereas with FB it seems to accrue exactly the same.

More generally it seems that we will see a significant increase in the number of elite status holders if the XPs come so easily.
Elite status was easier in the old system - just 15 qualifying segments, regardless of fare class (wtih the exception of award tickets & very basic fares on certain partner airlines) or distance flown.

For Elite you now need 20 qualifying short trips (5XP), or less if you take longer segments or travel in higher than Economy, but then these cost more money. So for a traveller that just flies in Eco in Europe, more flights are needed to get to Elite. A further disadvantage is the downgrading of internal flights to 2 XP.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 7:27 am
  #1293  
 
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Originally Posted by Solevita
Elite status was easier in the old system - just 15 qualifying segments, regardless of fare class (wtih the exception of award tickets & very basic fares on certain partner airlines) or distance flown.

For Elite you now need 20 qualifying short trips (5XP), or less if you take longer segments or travel in higher than Economy, but then these cost more money. So for a traveller that just flies in Eco in Europe, more flights are needed to get to Elite. A further disadvantage is the downgrading of internal flights to 2 XP.
Well it is harder for short flights, but for long haul, if you buy the cheapest coach ticket between Europe and the East coast, you used to get 25% of the miles per flight, so maybe 900 miles, it would have taken 15 flights to hold silver, now it will be 10 times 10 XP, big change. And still in premium eco with the cheapest fare, you go from needing 7 flights to needing 5. Cheapest business: from 5 flights to 4 flights. Cheapest first: from 3 flights to 2.

Last edited by af fp; Apr 3, 2018 at 7:55 am
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 7:30 am
  #1294  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by af fp
More generally it seems that we will see a significant increase in the number of elite status holders if the XPs come so easily.
As a simple Silver mortal in this Olympus of Platinums that is Flyertalk, I beg to disagree -- the way I see it, the number of Elites is going to decrease over the next year.

The old system allowed for Silver membership after 15 segments irrespective of your travel class and distance, whereas now you now need 100 XP for the same. Most of my travel is short haul/domestic in Economy -- for years I have easily requalified for Silver every 12 months. This year, were it not for a long-haul Business class trip I just completed, I would be out of Flying Blue. At 2 XP per domestic segment and 5 XP per regional flight, 100 XP is far out of reach for many Silvers, including myself.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 7:54 am
  #1295  
 
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Originally Posted by af fp
Well it is harder for short flights, but for long haul, if you buy the cheapest coach ticket between Europe and the East coast, you used to get 25% of the miles per flight, so maybe 900 miles, it would have taken 28 flights to hold silver, now it will be 10 times 10 XP, huge change. And still in premium eco with the cheapest fare, you go from needing 7 flights to needing 5. Cheapest business: from 5 flights to 4 flights. Cheapest first: from 3 flights to 2.
But you're talking about miles, I'm talking about segments (the disadvantage of the old system - you qualified with one or the other). In your case, 15 flights would have got you silver, not 28 - that would almost get you Gold..

OK so now that's 10 longer distance flights you need, 5 TATL round trips in the new system. It depends on your flight patterns... Long distance fliers are perhaps better off in most cases, European fliers worse off.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 9:47 am
  #1296  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
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Originally Posted by Solevita
But you're talking about miles, I'm talking about segments (the disadvantage of the old system - you qualified with one or the other). In your case, 15 flights would have got you silver, not 28 - that would almost get you Gold..

OK so now that's 10 longer distance flights you need, 5 TATL round trips in the new system. It depends on your flight patterns... Long distance fliers are perhaps better off in most cases, European fliers worse off.
You are right on 15 and not 28, I corrected this. Indeed FB do not seem to find their low-fare European base worthy of elite, on the other hand, an Indian who lives in the US will qualify for silver after 2.5 round trips home, which is 5 one-ways or 10 segments, this may be reachable with as little as USD 4,000, whereas previously one would have needed to spend almost double. On the other hand, it is a lot more money than before when 15 intra-European segments could probably be obtained with less than $1,000 with wise mileage runs, I get this. Clear focus on amount spent (but not necessarily on profitability, selling return flights between US and India for less than $1000 is probably not too profitable, more a seat filler).
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 9:48 am
  #1297  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Originally Posted by natcin
anyone knows where to go to find miles required for an upgrade award for a specific economy booking class? or is that entirely dynamic now and therefore depending on prevailing demand/prices at the time of upgrade request? all pre-planning out the window.
I called today about upgrading an L class DL coded, 057 ticketed, KL operated flight from AMS to JFK later this year.
Was told:
- booking class currently not upgradable
- call back on June 1; it is likely to be possible then.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 9:50 am
  #1298  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Is this the surprise they hinted at?
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 12:12 pm
  #1299  
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Originally Posted by af fp
I would (not equate but) compare a Light fare to an award ticket because with some airlines (such as DL or UA) the cheapest tickets (called Basic Economy) accrue less qualifying points whereas with FB it seems to accrue exactly the same.
Be that as it may - and there are many FFPs that give elite qualifying miles/points for ALL of their discount products - there is no FFP (that I know of) that grants qualification miles/points for award travel. So to assume this means FB would give XPs for award travel is neither supported by your comparison, nor anticipated by general FFP standards.

Originally Posted by af fp
More generally it seems that we will see a significant increase in the number of elite status holders if the XPs come so easily.
But don't forget that XPs are a "compromise" between the two former qualifying routes. You are thinking solely in terms of "Level Miles", but there was a qualification mechanism - Level Segments - that counted the most expensive full-fare La Premire sector that you could buy exactly equally as the cheapest Economy Light fare you could find on a short or domestic sector. 1 Level Segment was awarded for each sector flown, regardless of the cost of the ticket, or the cabin in which you flew.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 12:44 pm
  #1300  
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Originally Posted by TographerE
I just noticed as Gold that with Light I get a free 23kg suitcase as opposed to having to buy luggage.
Nothing new here. This has always be the case for Elites+ pax since they launched those MiNi/light fares.

Originally Posted by TographerE
Curiosity, with the new XP system is there any difference between buying an Economy ticket against a Light ticket?
So if I'm doing Economy say on CDG to LHR, just as an example, which is 5XP do I get those same 5XP if I'm buying a Light ticket?
Yes. XPs do not depend on fare but on class of travel and flight category (domestic, medium haul, etc). Miles depend now on fare paid

Originally Posted by TographerE
The old system didn't seem favorable towards the Light fare but the new system does.
Well...yes and no. The old system was giving you a few miles and a qualifying segment. The new system will still give you a few miles (likely a bit more than before as the light fares are not that light) and it gives you some XPs instead of a qualifying segment. So no big difference IMO.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 12:47 pm
  #1301  
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Originally Posted by af fp
So if we get XPs on light fares, do we also get XPs on miles or cash and miles award tickets?
As we don't yet know the mechanism for Cash Plus Miles, we can't answer that yet.

If it ends up being operated in the manner of using the cash element to effectively/virtually "buy" part of the mileage cost , then it is extremely unlikely that these tickets will earn XPs.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 12:48 pm
  #1302  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
As we don't yet know the mechanism for Cash Plus Miles, we can't answer that yet.

If it ends up being operated in the manner of using the cash element to effectively/virtually "buy" part of the mileage cost , then it is extremely unlikely that these tickets will earn XPs.
same opinion here.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 1:14 pm
  #1303  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
Then Excel is your new best friend
Explain please.........in PM if you prefer ?
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 1:47 pm
  #1304  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Be that as it may - and there are many FFPs that give elite qualifying miles/points for ALL of their discount products - there is no FFP (that I know of) that grants qualification miles/points for award travel. So to assume this means FB would give XPs for award travel is neither supported by your comparison, nor anticipated by general FFP standards.



But don't forget that XPs are a "compromise" between the two former qualifying routes. You are thinking solely in terms of "Level Miles", but there was a qualification mechanism - Level Segments - that counted the most expensive full-fare La Premire sector that you could buy exactly equally as the cheapest Economy Light fare you could find on a short or domestic sector. 1 Level Segment was awarded for each sector flown, regardless of the cost of the ticket, or the cabin in which you flew.
With the former level miles, I would requalify for platinum with just 2 round trips in La Premire with enough rollover miles to only need one round trip the following year. Now it will be more difficult to maintain platinum and I may just drop out of FB with this change since I am only about halfway to lifetime. I do not know how many others there are like me, but I predict the number of elites will go down.
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Old Apr 3, 2018, 1:49 pm
  #1305  
 
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Originally Posted by Marambio
As a simple Silver mortal in this Olympus of Platinums that is Flyertalk, I beg to disagree -- the way I see it, the number of Elites is going to decrease over the next year.

The old system allowed for Silver membership after 15 segments irrespective of your travel class and distance, whereas now you now need 100 XP for the same. Most of my travel is short haul/domestic in Economy -- for years I have easily requalified for Silver every 12 months. This year, were it not for a long-haul Business class trip I just completed, I would be out of Flying Blue. At 2 XP per domestic segment and 5 XP per regional flight, 100 XP is far out of reach for many Silvers, including myself.
Fully agreed. It is obvious that a main objective of "FB reinvented" is the reduction of Elites (as cost reduction measure)
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