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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

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Old Feb 22, 2018, 7:52 am
  #1096  
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by rosensfole
That's not my understanding; the level miles earned last year were converted to status (for me 70K level miles dropped leaving me with a balance of 40+K), afaik it's only those carry over miles plus new miles earned that will be converted to XP.
You're kind of stating the obvious.

Just look at your Flying Blue account, and that shows you how many Level Miles you have in your account. For most people it will only be the Level Miles earned since January 1st; for anyone who managed to get a rollover, it includes the miles rolled over after "converting to status" each year.

(Or did you somehow interpret the statement as being that the quoted number was the number of level miles accumulated in total over the lifetime of the account? That's a bit of a stretch...everyone can see when they log in what their current Level Miles balance is. And that's the only figure that anyone should/would ever care about)
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2018, 8:36 am
  #1097  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: flying blue
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AF/KLM American Express spending in end March

Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
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Old Feb 22, 2018, 8:37 am
  #1098  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: MAN
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Posts: 500
Originally Posted by wuzziduzziman
Exactly - so where do you see a disconnect with what we are saying? The rule is simple and straight forward - all level miles on your account by 31/3/18 will convert to XP by means of the known formula, period.
Obviously, there were concerns about upper limits for carry over, expiry of level miles or whatever - which is not happening.
Yeah. I had a 'mare there didn't I.

I misread the post then responded without thinking it through. Doh! Speed reading on the phone never a good idea.

Apologies...
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Old Feb 22, 2018, 11:14 am
  #1099  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Originally Posted by sharonchan813
Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
To be on the safe side you should make sure your transaction will be considered on next months statement. Your april statement might already be completely under the new scheme.
And yes, as far as FB matters are concerned, the NL AMEX staff is often pretty lost. Very friendly people, but most of the time no clue or not even understanding the issue...
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Old Feb 22, 2018, 2:50 pm
  #1100  
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Originally Posted by sharonchan813
Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
Level Miles cease to exist on 1 April 2018.

You can therefore expect March 2018 to be the last time Level Miles are added from credit card spend.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2018, 3:16 am
  #1101  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NL
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Posts: 1,929
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Level Miles cease to exist on 1 April 2018.

You can therefore expect March 2018 to be the last time Level Miles are added from credit card spend.
And to add / confirm:
When you buy a AF/KL ticket in March, but after the monthly cycle, you will not get level miles.
Brobbel is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2018, 12:29 pm
  #1102  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: flying blue
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Brobbel
And to add / confirm:
When you buy a AF/KL ticket in March, but after the monthly cycle, you will not get level miles.
Thanks for the answer. I’m already expecting the worst. Such a shame, I’m expecting purchasing 4 tickets for my family in end March and that would be around 5000 euro in total. Unfortunately I can’t buy it earlier. Anyway, it is what it is. I’m considering stopping my AFKLM AE gold when it expires this year. The 30XP is nothing considering I have to pay 175 euro for the card. I better spend it on a few more Europe city trips in the weekend. Thanks and many happy landings!
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Old Feb 27, 2018, 2:28 am
  #1103  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Originally Posted by bodory
We are now less than 40 days before the new FB is live and still have no view on the new dynamic pricing for awards.

Unfortunately the new DoD upgrade scheme is giving us a preview the upgrade conversion rate: 1 EUR = 143 miles for Y to J or W to J as pointed out by fellow FTer f0zzyNUE.
See here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29427052-post319.html
And there: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29441393-post327.html

That means the mile is worth 0.007 EUR when spending.

And it might be worse from Y to W with 1 EUR = 167 miles.
Though note that for J to P we only have 1 EUR = 111 miles.

If that very same conversion rate is used (the 1/143), the cheapest J return CDG-JFK (fare basis ZX2LSFR priced at 1,799 EUR) will cost 257,257 miles. Oh, and add taxes to that!

Needless to say we are screwed.
Where did you read that dynamic pricing goes into effect in April? The official information I've seen mentions June w.r.t. award changes (book any seat and miles + cash).

On a different note: I haven't read the whole thread but did a search to find an answer to my question. I found a similar question but no definite answer, so sorry if the answer did not pop up in the search results.

Has anyone been able to find out what you will get in earnings if you book an itinerary which includes AF/KL-marketed flights on DL stock? I'm looking at a mixed DL-marketed outbound, AF-marketed inbound trip which is bookable with DL so should be issued on 006 stock. However, the earnings are a mystery to me at this point. Am I correct when saying that, because DL issues the ticket, FB would not know the exact cost and can therefore not apply the revenue-based scheme to the AF-marketed inbound? Or does being the marketing carrier mean that AF will always know the cost? I know that AF would not get paid by DL until after the flight, but I don't know if they are notified of the amount that's coming before the miles are posted. It makes an enormous difference in earnings so it's worth considering when building the itinerary.
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Old Feb 27, 2018, 2:48 am
  #1104  
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Originally Posted by CosmicGirl
Has anyone been able to find out what you will get in earnings if you book an itinerary which includes AF/KL-marketed flights on DL stock? I'm looking at a mixed DL-marketed outbound, AF-marketed inbound trip which is bookable with DL so should be issued on 006 stock. However, the earnings are a mystery to me at this point. Am I correct when saying that, because DL issues the ticket, FB would not know the exact cost and can therefore not apply the revenue-based scheme to the AF-marketed inbound? Or does being the marketing carrier mean that AF will always know the cost? I know that AF would not get paid by DL until after the flight, but I don't know if they are notified of the amount that's coming before the miles are posted. It makes an enormous difference in earnings so it's worth considering when building the itinerary.
Ticket stock doesn't matter. What counts is the marketing carrier. So yes AF has access to ticket price if AF-coded flights even if the ticket is issued on 006 plate. And it is logical as this is an AF published fare, so AF knows it obviously.
Goldorak is offline  
Old Feb 27, 2018, 2:57 am
  #1105  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Originally Posted by Goldorak
Ticket stock doesn't matter. What counts is the marketing carrier. So yes AF has access to ticket price if AF-coded flights even if the ticket is issued on 006 plate. And it is logical as this is an AF published fare, so AF knows it obviously.
Thank you. So in this case you would get distance-based miles on the outbound and half of the ticket price for the inbound (same fare basis)? What a ****** deal. Back to the drawing board to find a DL-coded inbound...
CosmicGirl is offline  
Old Feb 27, 2018, 4:34 pm
  #1106  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 280
Will we keep the award miles after 1st of April? Only segments and level miles converted into XP?
KLBGO is offline  
Old Feb 27, 2018, 6:46 pm
  #1107  
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Originally Posted by KLBGO
Will we keep the award miles after 1st of April? Only segments and level miles converted into XP?
Yes and Yes. For the latter, both will be converted but only the most favorable conversion for you (between level miles and status flights) will be kept.
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Old Feb 28, 2018, 6:45 am
  #1108  
 
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Originally Posted by CosmicGirl
Where did you read that dynamic pricing goes into effect in April? The official information I've seen mentions June w.r.t. award changes (book any seat and miles + cash).
I did not write that the dynamic pricing goes to effect in April. What I am saying is that in one month from now the new earning scheme is in effet whereas we have no view on the new spending scheme which is indeed due in June. And that poses a problem: is it worth crediting the April to May flights to FB whereas we do not know how we would be able to spend them?

Under the new scheme, my current travel pattern with AF/KL gives me the same number of miles in some rare cases, most of my earnings being drastically cut. It's simple: would it be in Y or J, I never buy full fare (as I pay all the flights out of my pocket and it is cheaper to throw a ticket ultimately).

Elite status aside, a quick conclusion would be to drop FB or stop crediting AF/KL flights to FB (which is a non-sense for a loyalty program but should FB be reasonable we should have known now). The only thing that would go against that is the spending scheme: let's the my earnings are cut by 50% ; if the spending is also cut by more than 50% then I have a valid reason to stay with AF/KL and FB.

As written before, I am confident that we will be screwed anyway, which is why I have recently burnt hundreds of thousands miles. Still, I would love to be proven wrong and get the official communication on spending from FB before 1st of April.
bodory is offline  
Old Feb 28, 2018, 7:20 am
  #1109  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Originally Posted by bodory
I did not write that the dynamic pricing goes to effect in April. What I am saying is that in one month from now the new earning scheme is in effet whereas we have no view on the new spending scheme which is indeed due in June. And that poses a problem: is it worth crediting the April to May flights to FB whereas we do not know how we would be able to spend them?

Under the new scheme, my current travel pattern with AF/KL gives me the same number of miles in some rare cases, most of my earnings being drastically cut. It's simple: would it be in Y or J, I never buy full fare (as I pay all the flights out of my pocket and it is cheaper to throw a ticket ultimately).

Elite status aside, a quick conclusion would be to drop FB or stop crediting AF/KL flights to FB (which is a non-sense for a loyalty program but should FB be reasonable we should have known now). The only thing that would go against that is the spending scheme: let's the my earnings are cut by 50% ; if the spending is also cut by more than 50% then I have a valid reason to stay with AF/KL and FB.

As written before, I am confident that we will be screwed anyway, which is why I have recently burnt hundreds of thousands miles. Still, I would love to be proven wrong and get the official communication on spending from FB before 1st of April.
You could choose not to credit anything until you know what you want to know or don't book anything that's marketed by AF/KL so your earnings aren't affected, then burn them before the changes go into effect. Is it ideal? No. But there are options.
CosmicGirl is offline  
Old Mar 7, 2018, 9:06 am
  #1110  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Xp conversion

Hi I currently have around 50000 level miles and 22 flights so far this year, understand that the miles will be converted to xp (as this is higher) but will I loose my number of flights taken when is all gets converted ??

thanks
Paul.
Tonic27 is offline  


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