Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1096
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,713
Just look at your Flying Blue account, and that shows you how many Level Miles you have in your account. For most people it will only be the Level Miles earned since January 1st; for anyone who managed to get a rollover, it includes the miles rolled over after "converting to status" each year.
(Or did you somehow interpret the statement as being that the quoted number was the number of level miles accumulated in total over the lifetime of the account? That's a bit of a stretch...everyone can see when they log in what their current Level Miles balance is. And that's the only figure that anyone should/would ever care about)
#1097
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: flying blue
Posts: 75
AF/KLM American Express spending in end March
Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
thanks!
#1098
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 500
Exactly - so where do you see a disconnect with what we are saying? The rule is simple and straight forward - all level miles on your account by 31/3/18 will convert to XP by means of the known formula, period.
Obviously, there were concerns about upper limits for carry over, expiry of level miles or whatever - which is not happening.
Obviously, there were concerns about upper limits for carry over, expiry of level miles or whatever - which is not happening.
I misread the post then responded without thinking it through. Doh! Speed reading on the phone never a good idea.
Apologies...
#1099
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,120
Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
thanks!
And yes, as far as FB matters are concerned, the NL AMEX staff is often pretty lost. Very friendly people, but most of the time no clue or not even understanding the issue...
#1100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,713
Hi all, anybody knows if I pay with my AFKlm American Express in end March for KLM tickets, do I still get level miles for every euro I spend on the ticket? Usually I get the statement in mid of next month (so in this case, in mid April I will have level miles transferred to my FB account with old system). I called to AE hotline NL, but that staff doesn’t seem to understand my question after repeating 2 times my question.....errrrrr
thanks!
thanks!
You can therefore expect March 2018 to be the last time Level Miles are added from credit card spend.
#1101
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NL
Programs: FB M&M AA Amex HH SPG and others
Posts: 1,929
#1102
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: flying blue
Posts: 75
Thanks for the answer. I’m already expecting the worst. Such a shame, I’m expecting purchasing 4 tickets for my family in end March and that would be around 5000 euro in total. Unfortunately I can’t buy it earlier. Anyway, it is what it is. I’m considering stopping my AFKLM AE gold when it expires this year. The 30XP is nothing considering I have to pay 175 euro for the card. I better spend it on a few more Europe city trips in the weekend. Thanks and many happy landings!
#1103
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
We are now less than 40 days before the new FB is live and still have no view on the new dynamic pricing for awards.
Unfortunately the new DoD upgrade scheme is giving us a preview the upgrade conversion rate: 1 EUR = 143 miles for Y to J or W to J as pointed out by fellow FTer f0zzyNUE.
See here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29427052-post319.html
And there: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29441393-post327.html
That means the mile is worth 0.007 EUR when spending.
And it might be worse from Y to W with 1 EUR = 167 miles.
Though note that for J to P we only have 1 EUR = 111 miles.
If that very same conversion rate is used (the 1/143), the cheapest J return CDG-JFK (fare basis ZX2LSFR priced at 1,799 EUR) will cost 257,257 miles. Oh, and add taxes to that!
Needless to say we are screwed.
Unfortunately the new DoD upgrade scheme is giving us a preview the upgrade conversion rate: 1 EUR = 143 miles for Y to J or W to J as pointed out by fellow FTer f0zzyNUE.
See here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29427052-post319.html
And there: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29441393-post327.html
That means the mile is worth 0.007 EUR when spending.
And it might be worse from Y to W with 1 EUR = 167 miles.
Though note that for J to P we only have 1 EUR = 111 miles.
If that very same conversion rate is used (the 1/143), the cheapest J return CDG-JFK (fare basis ZX2LSFR priced at 1,799 EUR) will cost 257,257 miles. Oh, and add taxes to that!
Needless to say we are screwed.
On a different note: I haven't read the whole thread but did a search to find an answer to my question. I found a similar question but no definite answer, so sorry if the answer did not pop up in the search results.
Has anyone been able to find out what you will get in earnings if you book an itinerary which includes AF/KL-marketed flights on DL stock? I'm looking at a mixed DL-marketed outbound, AF-marketed inbound trip which is bookable with DL so should be issued on 006 stock. However, the earnings are a mystery to me at this point. Am I correct when saying that, because DL issues the ticket, FB would not know the exact cost and can therefore not apply the revenue-based scheme to the AF-marketed inbound? Or does being the marketing carrier mean that AF will always know the cost? I know that AF would not get paid by DL until after the flight, but I don't know if they are notified of the amount that's coming before the miles are posted. It makes an enormous difference in earnings so it's worth considering when building the itinerary.
#1104
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Has anyone been able to find out what you will get in earnings if you book an itinerary which includes AF/KL-marketed flights on DL stock? I'm looking at a mixed DL-marketed outbound, AF-marketed inbound trip which is bookable with DL so should be issued on 006 stock. However, the earnings are a mystery to me at this point. Am I correct when saying that, because DL issues the ticket, FB would not know the exact cost and can therefore not apply the revenue-based scheme to the AF-marketed inbound? Or does being the marketing carrier mean that AF will always know the cost? I know that AF would not get paid by DL until after the flight, but I don't know if they are notified of the amount that's coming before the miles are posted. It makes an enormous difference in earnings so it's worth considering when building the itinerary.
#1105
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Thank you. So in this case you would get distance-based miles on the outbound and half of the ticket price for the inbound (same fare basis)? What a ****** deal. Back to the drawing board to find a DL-coded inbound...
#1107
#1108
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Under the new scheme, my current travel pattern with AF/KL gives me the same number of miles in some rare cases, most of my earnings being drastically cut. It's simple: would it be in Y or J, I never buy full fare (as I pay all the flights out of my pocket and it is cheaper to throw a ticket ultimately).
Elite status aside, a quick conclusion would be to drop FB or stop crediting AF/KL flights to FB (which is a non-sense for a loyalty program but should FB be reasonable we should have known now). The only thing that would go against that is the spending scheme: let's the my earnings are cut by 50% ; if the spending is also cut by more than 50% then I have a valid reason to stay with AF/KL and FB.
As written before, I am confident that we will be screwed anyway, which is why I have recently burnt hundreds of thousands miles. Still, I would love to be proven wrong and get the official communication on spending from FB before 1st of April.
#1109
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
I did not write that the dynamic pricing goes to effect in April. What I am saying is that in one month from now the new earning scheme is in effet whereas we have no view on the new spending scheme which is indeed due in June. And that poses a problem: is it worth crediting the April to May flights to FB whereas we do not know how we would be able to spend them?
Under the new scheme, my current travel pattern with AF/KL gives me the same number of miles in some rare cases, most of my earnings being drastically cut. It's simple: would it be in Y or J, I never buy full fare (as I pay all the flights out of my pocket and it is cheaper to throw a ticket ultimately).
Elite status aside, a quick conclusion would be to drop FB or stop crediting AF/KL flights to FB (which is a non-sense for a loyalty program but should FB be reasonable we should have known now). The only thing that would go against that is the spending scheme: let's the my earnings are cut by 50% ; if the spending is also cut by more than 50% then I have a valid reason to stay with AF/KL and FB.
As written before, I am confident that we will be screwed anyway, which is why I have recently burnt hundreds of thousands miles. Still, I would love to be proven wrong and get the official communication on spending from FB before 1st of April.
Under the new scheme, my current travel pattern with AF/KL gives me the same number of miles in some rare cases, most of my earnings being drastically cut. It's simple: would it be in Y or J, I never buy full fare (as I pay all the flights out of my pocket and it is cheaper to throw a ticket ultimately).
Elite status aside, a quick conclusion would be to drop FB or stop crediting AF/KL flights to FB (which is a non-sense for a loyalty program but should FB be reasonable we should have known now). The only thing that would go against that is the spending scheme: let's the my earnings are cut by 50% ; if the spending is also cut by more than 50% then I have a valid reason to stay with AF/KL and FB.
As written before, I am confident that we will be screwed anyway, which is why I have recently burnt hundreds of thousands miles. Still, I would love to be proven wrong and get the official communication on spending from FB before 1st of April.
#1110
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 64
Xp conversion
Hi I currently have around 50000 level miles and 22 flights so far this year, understand that the miles will be converted to xp (as this is higher) but will I loose my number of flights taken when is all gets converted ??
thanks
Paul.
thanks
Paul.