Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#886
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
Your right is to stop being a loyal customer, to choose one of the competitors. The airline is not obliged to do whatever you want.. *
* Small exception perhaps on some lawful rules that are not adhered to, but that obviously does not apply to how many miles they award - that is totally up to them. If you don't like it - leave.
* Small exception perhaps on some lawful rules that are not adhered to, but that obviously does not apply to how many miles they award - that is totally up to them. If you don't like it - leave.
#887
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
Since the default mentality here is "let the airlines do whatever they want to do" (I'm just FB Silver anyway - not hardcore FF), wish you guys luck with the new program. Hope you don't complain too much once they raise the YQ to 800 EUR, or decrease the earning rate to 1 miles per 4 EUR spent, increase the award requirements, limiting award space, etc. At the end, it's customer's right to STFU and choose another program, right?
#888
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,409
Since the default mentality here is "let the airlines do whatever they want to do" (I'm just FB Silver anyway - not hardcore FF), wish you guys luck with the new program. Hope you don't complain too much once they raise the YQ to 800 EUR, or decrease the earning rate to 1 miles per 4 EUR spent, increase the award requirements, limiting award space, etc. At the end, it's customer's right to STFU and choose another program, right?
As @Goldorak already pointed out correctly, some people will benefit from the changes, some people will lose and for some it won't make a huge difference, but even if they had changed the earning rate to be 1 miles per 4 spend, what can you do except complain about it, use all your miles and go to a different FFP?
#889
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
Well, the default mentality here is for sure not "sue sue and sue the airline some more".
As @Goldorak already pointed out correctly, some people will benefit from the changes, some people will lose and for some it won't make a huge difference, but even if they had changed the earning rate to be 1 miles per 4€ spend, what can you do except complain about it, use all your miles and go to a different FFP?
As @Goldorak already pointed out correctly, some people will benefit from the changes, some people will lose and for some it won't make a huge difference, but even if they had changed the earning rate to be 1 miles per 4€ spend, what can you do except complain about it, use all your miles and go to a different FFP?
I believe case is closed.
#890
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,321
The point is, there is a difference between complaining (asking them to change something), or, going to court as if it is your right.
#891
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
#892
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 493
FFP must not be taken for granted. Travel industry is probably one of the most generous in terms of loyalty rewarding. Even if the trend may seems to be in favor of the most profitable customers and not the most loyal, those programs are still kind of unique even at a ratio of 1 mile / 4 euros spent.
#893
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
FFP must not be taken for granted. Travel industry is probably one of the most generous in terms of loyalty rewarding. Even if the trend may seems to be in favor of the most profitable customers and not the most loyal, those programs are still kind of unique even at a ratio of 1 mile / 4 euros spent.
In that case I'd just fly WOWair. But I'm pretty sure AF/KL will be happy to have a cashcow. ^
#894
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,791
Hypothetical question: If one day all airlines & FFP decreased that earning ratio to 1 mile / 4 EUR spent and do whatever they want including terminating your account without any reason, does your "If you don't like it - leave." still applicable to yourself? Maybe Goldorak can also express his opinion?
As I already said in this thread or other ones over the years on FT, I never hesitate to raise my voice if needed. I have complained a certain number of times with AF since I fly with them and I have been heard many times. Experience has shown me that you obtain much more that way than shouting around and throwing at them some lawsuit threats. AF is an airline I trust. I am among the ones who find the new system fair and clever. If one day I am not satisfied anymore, I will have the freedom to move to a greener grass. Same if I don't like a restaurant or an hotel or if a good experience is deteriorating, I don't go back, period. And if there is no greener grass, then I can guarantee you that you'll have much worst problems to deal with during your life...
#895
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 213
If you want me to comment any hypothetical situation "if this" or "if that", I'm not your man.
As I already said in this thread or other ones over the years on FT, I never hesitate to raise my voice if needed. I have complained a certain number of times with AF since I fly with them and I have been heard many times. Experience has shown me that you obtain much more that way than shouting around and throwing at them some lawsuit threats. AF is an airline I trust. I am among the ones who find the new system fair and clever. If one day I am not satisfied anymore, I will have the freedom to move to a greener grass. Same if I don't like a restaurant or an hotel or if a good experience is deteriorating, I don't go back, period. And if there is no greener grass, then I can guarantee you that you'll have much worst problems to deal with during your life...
As I already said in this thread or other ones over the years on FT, I never hesitate to raise my voice if needed. I have complained a certain number of times with AF since I fly with them and I have been heard many times. Experience has shown me that you obtain much more that way than shouting around and throwing at them some lawsuit threats. AF is an airline I trust. I am among the ones who find the new system fair and clever. If one day I am not satisfied anymore, I will have the freedom to move to a greener grass. Same if I don't like a restaurant or an hotel or if a good experience is deteriorating, I don't go back, period. And if there is no greener grass, then I can guarantee you that you'll have much worst problems to deal with during your life...
#896
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,379
There seems to be a general misconception that loyalty programs have anything to do with loyalty other than that of the traveller towards the carrier.
#898
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,910
These will be applicable for the acquisition of miles.
For XP, the regular chart will be applicable for all SkyTeam partners, and include of course W:
#899
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,321
What happens with an AF Premium Economy booking that includes short-haul sectors nowadays? Eg AMS-CDG-TYO. Does the AMS-CDG segment earn 10 XP's, or, 5 XP's now that premium economy no longer exists short haul?