Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#781
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,006
It's 7XP per segment. Or 4XP for 1000 miles (French members). Whichever is more. So for a return you'll get 14XP for 2 segments, rather than 12XP for 3000 miles.
15 points is for FUTURE flights. (starting April 2018)
15 points is for FUTURE flights. (starting April 2018)
#782
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Thanks. I have to say though that is bonkers! Why not give people the points it will equate to under the new system?
#783
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,006
I guess because everything runs under the old system until March and it would be too difficult to consider 3 ways to (re)qualify in the first three months and to decide which value to use (and whether to clear it of qualification loss as per new system or not).
Also, miles can be carried over. Segments not (until now)
Also, miles can be carried over. Segments not (until now)
#784
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
#785
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
And having different systems for different groups of people would be, potentially, unfair.
The "conversion" system - which was published well in advance of the period for which it will have most impact for most people (and which presents a good arbitrage opportunity for some people) - is therefore a simple and easy way to effect the changeover.
#786
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: FB Plat 4 life
Posts: 47
I'm wondering how, when, for how long, status will be acquired for 2019 when already Platinum and with roll-over.
Situation:
Qualified Plat for 2018, the 31 dec 2017 with 140 000 status miles
Plat the 1st of Jan 2018 with 70 000 remaining status miles
1st of April 2018, conversion to 350xp.
Now the question is : are you Plat until the 1st of April 2019 OR Plat until the 31 Dec 2019 ?
Situation:
Qualified Plat for 2018, the 31 dec 2017 with 140 000 status miles
Plat the 1st of Jan 2018 with 70 000 remaining status miles
1st of April 2018, conversion to 350xp.
Now the question is : are you Plat until the 1st of April 2019 OR Plat until the 31 Dec 2019 ?
#787
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
I'm wondering how, when, for how long, status will be acquired for 2019 when already Platinum and with roll-over.
Situation:
Qualified Plat for 2018, the 31 dec 2017 with 140 000 status miles
Plat the 1st of Jan 2018 with 70 000 remaining status miles
1st of April 2018, conversion to 350xp.
Now the question is : are you Plat until the 1st of April 2019 OR Plat until the 31 Dec 2019 ?
Situation:
Qualified Plat for 2018, the 31 dec 2017 with 140 000 status miles
Plat the 1st of Jan 2018 with 70 000 remaining status miles
1st of April 2018, conversion to 350xp.
Now the question is : are you Plat until the 1st of April 2019 OR Plat until the 31 Dec 2019 ?
Would it be fair that they deducted 300 XP already in April 2018 after the conversion for effectively no gain? They should only deduct the XP on your anniversary/status expiry, or when going up in level which is not possible when already platinum, so they take the 300XP 31 March 2019 (or possibly 31 Dec 2018) in return for 12 months extra status.
#788
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 784
If you'll have 70000 Plat miles on 31st March 2018 then it'll be 350 XP, which will be deducted on 1st April 2019 (most likely) and therefore you keep your status until 1st April 2020.
#789
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,006
Actually the status year is still Jan-Dec so it would be deducted 1 Jan 19 (or 31 Dec 18), but I see little reason why they would stop giving themselves the same extra three months they do now.
So deduction end 18 for year 19 with card expiry Mar 20
So deduction end 18 for year 19 with card expiry Mar 20
#790
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Yes. I agree. By way of comparison, BA, which also have personalised years rather than calendar years, also gives members an extra couple of months of prolonged status beyond the end of the status points collection year to deal with late crediting and the sending of new cards.
#791
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Platinum bonus
Hi all,
I managed to read the whole thread! lots of good information, thank you all!
I've been moving between silver, gold and platinium for the last few years, and got back to Platinum with 75 segments this year (based in germany, european flights connecting via AMS mostly).
So, really, the new XP concept will not impact me much. I will still need 60 segments/year to keep platinum, or 36 (6 more than today) for Gold, based on 5 xp/segment. I can almost see a benefit, to carry the exceding segments over to the next year, which doesnt happen today.
In this case, I would be rolling-over 5 XP x 15 segments= 75 XP in the next year. Pretty cool.
My 2 remaining questions on the new program are regarding the normal miles, not status XP:
- Platinum miles bonus: I understand that the new miles will be calculated based on 8 miles/euro for platinum members. Does the 8 miles/euro includes the platinum bonus? Or will there be an extra bonus on top (like today's "Elite Bonus miles")?
- Car rental miles: I often drive with Sixt and get 200 miles/booking. Will this still be applying?
cheers
I managed to read the whole thread! lots of good information, thank you all!
I've been moving between silver, gold and platinium for the last few years, and got back to Platinum with 75 segments this year (based in germany, european flights connecting via AMS mostly).
So, really, the new XP concept will not impact me much. I will still need 60 segments/year to keep platinum, or 36 (6 more than today) for Gold, based on 5 xp/segment. I can almost see a benefit, to carry the exceding segments over to the next year, which doesnt happen today.
In this case, I would be rolling-over 5 XP x 15 segments= 75 XP in the next year. Pretty cool.
My 2 remaining questions on the new program are regarding the normal miles, not status XP:
- Platinum miles bonus: I understand that the new miles will be calculated based on 8 miles/euro for platinum members. Does the 8 miles/euro includes the platinum bonus? Or will there be an extra bonus on top (like today's "Elite Bonus miles")?
- Car rental miles: I often drive with Sixt and get 200 miles/booking. Will this still be applying?
cheers
#792
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
My 2 remaining questions on the new program are regarding the normal miles, not status XP:
- Platinum miles bonus: I understand that the new miles will be calculated based on 8 miles/euro for platinum members. Does the 8 miles/euro includes the platinum bonus? Or will there be an extra bonus on top (like today's "Elite Bonus miles")?
- Car rental miles: I often drive with Sixt and get 200 miles/booking. Will this still be applying?
- Platinum miles bonus: I understand that the new miles will be calculated based on 8 miles/euro for platinum members. Does the 8 miles/euro includes the platinum bonus? Or will there be an extra bonus on top (like today's "Elite Bonus miles")?
- Car rental miles: I often drive with Sixt and get 200 miles/booking. Will this still be applying?
The image below tells you everything you need to know about earning Award Miles. This is the only table that counts for mileage earning when you fly AF/KL. There are no "bonuses" (or, if you like, the "bonus" is built in; that's why each subsequent level of status gets a higher earn rate)
As for car rental miles, you will have to refer to the car rental company. They determine what your rental earns. It has little to do with Flying Blue, and nothing whatsoever to do with the changes in the FB programme.
#793
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
The image below tells you everything you need to know about earning Award Miles. This is the only table that counts for mileage earning when you fly AF/KL. There are no "bonuses" (or, if you like, the "bonus" is built in; that's why each subsequent level of status gets a higher earn rate)
As for car rental miles, you will have to refer to the car rental company. They determine what your rental earns. It has little to do with Flying Blue, and nothing whatsoever to do with the changes in the FB programme.
As for car rental miles, you will have to refer to the car rental company. They determine what your rental earns. It has little to do with Flying Blue, and nothing whatsoever to do with the changes in the FB programme.
Thanks!
#795
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Exactly. By the magic of mathematics, one will quickly notice that:
4 miles per euro +50% bonus = 6 miles per euro = silver accrual rate;
4 miles per euro +75% bonus = 7 miles per euro = gold accrual rate;
4 miles per euro +100% bonus = 8 miles per euro = Platinum accrual rate;
4 miles per euro +50% bonus = 6 miles per euro = silver accrual rate;
4 miles per euro +75% bonus = 7 miles per euro = gold accrual rate;
4 miles per euro +100% bonus = 8 miles per euro = Platinum accrual rate;