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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Old Nov 11, 2017, 7:26 pm
  #676  
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
I don’t think it’s really an objective of FB to attract many Asian members, unless someone flies regularly Asia-Europe with AF. Indeed, Skyteam is so much represented in Asia with CZ, MU, VN, CI and GA, that it is very likely that any Asia- based flyer will be a member of those FFPs rather than FB. And they will enjoy Skyteam benefits flying AF. So no need to be a member of FB for them.


AF has not always reduced capacity to HKG as they had at one time a second flight some days of the week, then they came back to one but with the A380 and then they reduced capacity moving to the B77W but with a much better product and the choice was a clever one on such a market (like to SIN). And for CX, IIRC, they have not consistently increased capacity to CDG. I remember that they canceled 2-3 years ago a 2nd flight (to daily), which they re-introduced recently. And they also moved from the B744 to the B777. So the picture is certainly not as green on the CX side and as red or black on the AF side. Again, this is all based on my memory and I apologize if my memory is wrong


I fully agree.
Your points are well taken.

Just a precision on HKG route. AF has steadily reduced capacity from 11 weekly, to a daily 380, to a mix of daily 380 and 777 to a daily 77W. The new 77W is an improvement for premium classes but is still a reduction in capacity in Y and the loads in J are not great. CX did have a drop in capacity several years ago, but they recently moved from one daily to 11 weekly (added one weekly flight recently) and their loads in J are good.
PS: This is OT, but AF badly needs smaller planes (787 A350) to adjust capacity to Asia.

Last edited by brunos; Nov 11, 2017 at 9:52 pm
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 3:52 am
  #677  
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
Ignoring AF though?
Domestic flights didn't previously count for qualification purposes for French residents, so they go from 0 to 2XP
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 4:05 am
  #678  
 
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Excepted in F, I will now give priority to others Skyteam companies due to the drastic decrease of miles. What i feel is the end of the good times: AFKLM have too much miles in their balance sheet. Future is now for the 85% ivory flyers
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 4:23 am
  #679  
 
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Originally Posted by Leadership
Thank you for your replies

We have detailed the fare class used in the article, but to be even more precise, here are the full fare basis:

IMHO, full fare is not a common reference, excepted in P.
From Europe, you will win much less than today

Last edited by delanotre; Nov 12, 2017 at 4:31 am Reason: precision
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 4:33 am
  #680  
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Originally Posted by delanotre
Excepted in F, I will now give priority to others Skyteam companies due to the drastic decrease of miles. What i feel is the end of the good times: AFKLM have too much miles in their balance sheet. Future is now for the 85% ivory flyers
I agree that this is likely to be the perverse effect of the new system for many passengers.
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 6:00 am
  #681  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
I think they see it as rewarding the flyers of the (domestic) networks of the airlines having FB as their native program!

(Domestic Delta segments can therefore also earn 4XP if they ditch SkyMiles and sign up to FB )
Unless I missed a post in the last 48 hours, everything in this thread pointed at 2 XP for domestic US flights. So how can they offer 4 XP for a domestic flights in Kenya or Romania but only 2 XP for a JFK-LAX?
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 6:10 am
  #682  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Does anybody know the ratio between the fare's, I fly a lot AMS-BCN and the result i make Plat KLM with the 60+ segments, but many the are cheaper tickets due to company rules. This normal in the corporate world.
Now with the fare split does this mean that we will see things like on the AMS-BCN leg:
Full fare economy = 5XP
50% Fare economy =3XP
and cheapo 25% fares will see 1 or 2 XP

If this is the case you would need to fly a lot more than today. 60 segments with 3XP fares points would mean only 180XP and that is 120XP short of Plat.
That would mean you would need to fly 100 flights a year to maintain the status. Again that is for somebody not flying Business across the pond.
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 6:30 am
  #683  
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Maybe because Tarom and Kenyan use FB as their programs?
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 7:12 am
  #684  
 
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How are the Award miles given. When you paid for a ticket? Or when flown? What happens when you skip a leg? Interesting to know how this will work out as I often trash the last leg as I have 4 points I normally travel from and also back via Amsterdam (NWI, BRU, DUS, LON) depending on the client I am working for.
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 7:58 am
  #685  
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Originally Posted by Mike Horsten
Does anybody know the ratio between the fare's, I fly a lot AMS-BCN and the result i make Plat KLM with the 60+ segments, but many the are cheaper tickets due to company rules. This normal in the corporate world.
Now with the fare split does this mean that we will see things like on the AMS-BCN leg:
Full fare economy = 5XP
50% Fare economy =3XP
and cheapo 25% fares will see 1 or 2 XP

If this is the case you would need to fly a lot more than today. 60 segments with 3XP fares points would mean only 180XP and that is 120XP short of Plat.
That would mean you would need to fly 100 flights a year to maintain the status. Again that is for somebody not flying Business across the pond.
XP earning does not depend on fare paid. A one-way AMS-BCN in Y will give you 5 XPs whatever the price you pay. Only the miles you will earn will depend on the price you pay.
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 8:56 am
  #686  
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
How are the Award miles given. When you paid for a ticket? Or when flown?
You only get miles for flights that you actually fly. Miles are awarded for flying - not buying. Nothing changes in this regard.

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
What happens when you skip a leg?
If you skip a leg, all remaining sectors on the ticket are cancelled. Nothing changes in this regard.


Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
Interesting to know how this will work out as I often trash the last leg as I have 4 points I normally travel from and also back via Amsterdam (NWI, BRU, DUS, LON) depending on the client I am working for.
If you don't take a flight, you won't get miles for that flight. Nothing changes in this regard.
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 9:00 am
  #687  
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Originally Posted by Enthilza
Unless I missed a post in the last 48 hours, everything in this thread pointed at 2 XP for domestic US flights. So how can they offer 4 XP for a domestic flights in Kenya or Romania but only 2 XP for a JFK-LAX?
Because Flying Blue is "generous by nature".

Don't forget to vote for it in the Freddies! AGAIN!
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 9:12 am
  #688  
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
How are the Award miles given. When you paid for a ticket? Or when flown? What happens when you skip a leg? Interesting to know how this will work out as I often trash the last leg as I have 4 points I normally travel from and also back via Amsterdam (NWI, BRU, DUS, LON) depending on the client I am working for.
Originally Posted by irishguy28
If you skip a leg, all remaining sectors on the ticket are cancelled. Nothing changes in this regard.

If you don't take a flight, you won't get miles for that flight. Nothing changes in this regard.
But I don't think this is addressing the point raised by Meneer Guggenheimer and this is an interesting case study.
For the XPs, yes, I think it's clear, if you skip a leg, you won't earn XP for this leg. But what about the miles which now depend entirely on how much you paid and not on the distance, number of flights etc. Let's imagine an Ivory member flying a DUS-CDG-JFK and return ticket paid 500 euros round trip (taxes excluded). If he flies all the way outbound and inbound as planned, he will earn 4*500 = 2000 miles. If he drops the last leg CDG-DUS on the return trip, what happens ?
a) same miles earning ?
b) no miles at all as a kind of penalty for having dropped a leg ?
c) will they recalculate the fare based on flying DUS-CDG-JFK-CDG and ask for a (big) fare difference and then credit more miles corresponding to the newly purchased fare ?
d) will they recalculate the fare but in a "simple way" like on 500 Euros, the dropped CDG-DUS fare represent let's say 80 euros and the miles earned are recalculated as of 420*4 : 1680 miles ?
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 9:14 am
  #689  
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Given FB's "generous by nature" credo, I would go for option b)

Or deduct a fraction equal to the number of sectors dropped divided by the total number of sectors. That'll teach you to drop short sectors!!!
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Old Nov 12, 2017, 9:18 am
  #690  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Given FB's "generous by nature" credo, I would go for option b)

Or deduct a fraction equal to the number of sectors dropped divided by the total number of sectors. That'll teach you to drop short sectors!!!

Jokes apart, I think nobody knows this answer yet (even FB may be ). It will be interesting to know next year...
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